NNSA Dismantles Last Nuclear Artillery Shell; Battefield Weapons Were Retired by George H.W. Bush

releases.usnewswire.com ^

[Hunble]

Nuclear artillery operated under the same release constraints as strategic and theater weapons.

At that time, the American Army was trained to retreat. Fire your artillery and retreat 10 km. Your one and only mission was to delay the Russian Army for three days!

By the third day, we expected Frankfurt to be captured by the Russians.

Once Frankfurt was occupied by the Russian, we were authorized to use tactical nuclear weapons.

[Darksheare]

Yes.
There were some proposing MLRS as a complete replacement for tube artillery.
MLRS can't do Illume, which is rather useful for psychological attacks on the other guy by making him feel visible.
There are other things it can't do, so I never understood the "Get rid of tube artillery" crowd much.
I saw the two systems/disciplines as being complementary and cooperative in their use.
Many of the brass were of the opinion that MLRS and tube artillery were exclusive of each other.

[GreyFriar]

Atomic Annie, the gun you refer too was the first atomic cannon in the US inventory. It was a 240mm gun. The main problem with the Davy Crockett nuke was that the inner radius of danger was greater than the range of the system. Both were early 1950s systems

Later improved systems: 155mm Self-propelled gun-howitzers (M-109 series) put nukes out to 16+ kilometers, the 8inch (M-110) guns (vice howitzers) had a longer range. Both shells made the occupants of a grid square and their neighbors evaporated critters. I served in the Fire Direction Center (FDC) of M-109 units in the States and Germany. We trained constantly in figuring the firing data for nukes.

[archy]

In 1977, I was shot at by a German while guarding (NATO two three) these nuclear weapon artillery shells. To this day, I will alway remember how important these nuclear artillery shells were in our effort to prevent the Russians from invading West Germany

If you were involved in the incident involving one of 56 FA Command Pershing missile sites around Heilbronn, Germany, you might remember an E-5 Sergeant [first name *Dave*] who was decorated for his actions in that incident. At the time 3rd Infantry Division maintained an infantry reaction unit as a response force for the Pershing sites, said to have meen the last motorized infantry unit [mounted in trucks instead of tracked vehicles/*mechanized*] organized as per the old WWII infantry OOB/TO&E, better suited for the number of infantrymen who could fit in the back of a duece-and-a-half, though current M35A2 trucks were used instead of WWII-era Studebaker *Eager Beavers....* I believe that M60 machinegun-mounted M151 gun jeeps were also used in those pre-HUMVEE days, as well- nice and breezy during a German winter....

If you were involved in an action other than the one near Heilbronn, then there were multiple incidents, probasbly coordinated. The warheads in the Heilbronn *Empty Quiver* attempt were B61-11 warheads for the 4/9 Field Artillery's Pershing 1A missiles, intended for counterresponse at hardened military and political sites inside the Soviet Union- headquarters command centers and governmental *crisis relocation* sites.

*Important in our effort to prevent the Russians from invading West Germany?* Oh yeah, just a little bit....

[Poohbah]

If you were involved in an action other than the one near Heilbronn, then there were multiple incidents, probasbly coordinated. The warheads in the Heilbronn *Empty Quiver* attempt were B61-11 warheads for the 4/9 Field Artillery's Pershing 1A missiles, intended for counterresponse at hardened military and political sites inside the Soviet Union- headquarters command centers and governmental *crisis relocation* sites.

Pershing 1A carried the W-50, and didn't have the range to reach the Moscow relocation arc. The B61-11 didn't enter service until the 1990s. Pershing II carried a W-85 warhead in a terminally-guided maneuvering reentry vehicle (MaRV) and was aimed at the Moscow target set, but didn't field until the mid-1980s.

[archy]

BTW, there is supposedly a film of a Davy Crockett being fired to maximum ballistic range from a jeep...which then gets blown a$$ over teakettle by the blast. Yeah, that was pretty stupid.,p> That was the *Little Feller* shots in 1962, I believe. Shortly thereafter, they came up with the Davy Crockett launcher mount on a modified M113 armored personnel carrier [M116] instead. By the way, don't miss the following *training film* which had the Military Intelligence spooks all in a snit at the time [1962] too.

I wonder how close it would have had to have been to the NukeDet for the M113s aluminum armor to melt. Neither does the thought of the fuel tank of the early gasoline-engined M113s, a large plastic bag behind the driver hung between the exterior armor and interior crew compartment walls, seem a real desirable feature for such activities. Range was supposed to be 2.5 miles, barring headwings affecting the 155mm projectile, which could cut the maximum range by almost half.

Incidentally, the little 37mm spotting rifle hung under the muzzle of the M29 Davy Crockett launcher was great fun to shoot....

[archy]

Pershing 1A carried the W-50, and didn't have the range to reach the Moscow relocation arc. The B61-11 didn't enter service until the 1990s. Pershing II carried a W-85 warhead in a terminally-guided maneuvering reentry vehicle (MaRV) and was aimed at the Moscow target set, but didn't field until the mid-1980s.

Just so. But Moscow wasn't the only Warsaw Pact headquarters capital that was targeted. And decapitation of those leaders necessary to give an order to wind things down was not considered to be the smartest first move to be made, assuming less than an all-out throw the kitchen sink at 'em exchange.

-archy-/-

[Poohbah]

But Moscow wasn't the only Warsaw Pact headquarters capital that was targeted.

But it was the only one that counted--the WP armies were completely subordinate to Moscow in a shooting war, and their cee-cubed didn't go through their national capitols.

[weaponeer]

I stand corrected.

I had a web site that showed M110A2 still being deployed in DivArty in 2001. Things change pretty quick.

[archy]

But Moscow wasn't the only Warsaw Pact headquarters capital that was targeted.

But it was the only one that counted--the WP armies were completely subordinate to Moscow in a shooting war, and their cee-cubed didn't go through their national capitols.

Among other unclas references, see General Sir John *Shan* Hackett's account of a fictional 1985 Third World War, published in 1978.

And if the C⁴ didn't go through their national capitols, their raillines generally did. Two birds could be had with one thermonuclear stone there.

-archy-/-

[Poohbah]

Among other unclas references, see General Sir John *Shan* Hackett's account of a fictional 1985 Third World War, published in 1978.

I have.

See Viktor Suvorov (pseudonym of Vladimir Rezun, the only GRU agent to defect to the West and live to tell the tale), Inside the Soviet Army.

[archy]

That'd be a 203mm or higher, right?

Correct. The 8-inch was AKA the 203mm. The same vehicle mount and recoil system was used for the long barrelled 175mm gun, which the cannon cockers sometimes called *the sniper's rifle. And there was some shared technology between the Army and Naval 8-inch projectiles, too.

Haven't seen one anywhere, and I'd have loved to have seen one.
The highest we have currently is a 155mm.

But the biggest in the world IIRC is in South Africa.

Don't remember the size of the round offhand though.

They played with a 245mm gun-mortar, IIRC- not sure if it was rifled or smoothbore. Wisely, they pushed the development of the SRC G5 long-range 155mm artillery instead. Of course the *Superguns* designed by SRC founder Gerald Bull for the Iraqis were 350 and 1,000-MM smoothbore tubes, though happily not mobile. I wouldn't bet on the Soviets not having something of similar size, though; during WWII they had at least one field piece [305mm BR-18] that used the ammunition of their 305mm TM-2-12 and TM-3-12 railroad guns...which were NOT their largest mobile artillery; the 500mm TG-1 probably holds that record.

And no, there aren't any 8 inch howies around anymore.

Well the Israelis still use 'em, to be sure. As do a few of our NATO allies. But we've gone to the MLRS rocket launcher instead. And the Israelis are developing their lightweight 20-ton RASCAL 155 SP gun with 45-cal barrel on a modified Merkava tank chassis, which should outrange the 8-inch...unless the SRC developments for the 155 are applied to the 203mm guns and projos too.

[brooklin]

Thanks, at least the paladin is enclosed.

[Darksheare]

Neat.
Guess that'd be the 203mm SP I saw with the barrel name of "Blood, Sweat & Tears" on it.

*chuckle*
I'd bet that the Russians still have huge artillery sitting in use somewhere.
Probably close to their unfriendly border with China.

[Darksheare]

YES!
Crusader would have been an improvement, but the need for an ammo carrier made some brass uncomfortable.
Plus several other reasons cited, most of them BS.
So they killed the program.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Muzzle-loading cannon bump.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

The only thing I ever had to do with nukes was being in the Regimental S3 shop when a FIREBREAK Emergency Action Message would come in and the fire support element would have to decode it. Horns went off and whoopee lights flashed and it was all very Dr. Strangelovian

This was back when Brezhnev, Chernyenko and Andropov were taking turns catching cold and dropping out of sight and then being announced to have died. We got lucky things turned out as well as they did. Could have been real bad.

[U S Army EOD]

Is this something new, I don't remember the metal rims on the wheels of the one we had?

[T-Bird45]

You are correct on the M110. Here in Oklahoma there are several fine examples decorating city parks, VFW & American Legion hall parking lots, etc. Most came from Ft. Sill -- I recognize most of the unit designations stencilled on them.

BTW, EOD, it is Wiesbaden and the Baader-Meinhof/Red Army Faction made its bombing attempt on the Wiesbaden Community Center, about a block away from the Kurhaus/Casino in downtown Wiesbaden. This was about 1979, IIRC.

[Darksheare]

I miss drooling over Atomic Annie...