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Virginia is in the South, but 'Southerners' here are disappearing
fredericksburg.com ^ | 12/5/2003 | Jonathan Hunley

Posted on 12/12/2003 7:36:44 AM PST by stainlessbanner

YOU'RE READING this newspaper in Virginia, which, by most accounts, means you're in the South.

If you drive about an hour down Interstate 95, you hit Richmond, once the capital of the Confederacy. So you would think that living in Virginia, being a Virginian, would make you a Southerner.

Not so, it seems. At least, not for everyone. A recent study by Vanderbilt University professor Larry Griffin and graduate student Ashley Thompson found that an average of only 64 percent of survey respondents in the years 1991 to 2001 said they considered themselves Southerners.

The Vanderbilt researchers analyzed data from telephone polls with folks in the former Confederate states plus Kentucky and Oklahoma. Virginia ranked third-lowest in percentage of people who claimed Southern status. Second-lowest was Oklahoma at 53 percent. Florida had the smallest percentage: 51 percent. But who really thinks of Florida as "the South" anyway? It's full of retirees from all over the place.

So what's the deal with Old Dominion dwellers? You might blame the low figure partly on Northern Virginians.

This is not the time to squabble over whether Fredericksburg is in Northern Virginia. I'm talking about D.C.'s near suburbs: Fairfax, Alexandria, Arlington. Many of those folks probably consider themselves Washingtonians and pay no attention to where they get their mail, or to which state they pay their taxes.

Case in point: I went to college in Virginia, at William & Mary, and the only person I can remember making fun of my Southwest Virginia accent hailed from Burke. Not from Long Island, Detroit, or Boston. Not from somewhere where I think the natives sound funny. From Burke.

Regardless of the cause, the notion of the "disappearing Southerner," as the Vanderbilt folks termed it, is sad.

It's sad because it means a way of life is slowly eroding.

Now, don't get me wrong. There are things about the South that receive criticism that I would just as soon have nothing to do with. Chief among them is our historical attachment to slavery.

But despite this horrible institution of the past, and its kin, like Jim Crow laws, blacks in the South actually embrace the term "Southerner," Griffin told me.

He found that blacks surveyed were at least as likely as whites to identify themselves as Southerners.

"They have made a claim that the South is truly theirs," Griffin said.

And, as Ben "Cooter" Jones noted in this space recently, hoisting the Confederate flag at certain ceremonial times doesn't make a white person a racist. A friend of mine manages to simultaneously be a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans and one of the most open-minded people I know.

So we're not all bigots in the South. And, don't necessarily judge by me, but we're not all stupid--another common misconception that probably would lead some to disavow their surroundings. Though I don't mean to defend their politics or personal lives, the last two presidents from the South--Carter and Clinton--were two of our most intelligent chief executives in modern times.

The decline of believing in Southern traditions means a decline in association with the past. We live here because we were taught to be proud of our heritage. In fact, the place outside the South to which I'd be most likely to move is Baltimore, which has been called the "northernmost Southern city."

Tom Moncure, who works for Attorney General Jerry Kilgore in Richmond, put it well in a Free Lance-Star column in 1998.

"It would simply not occur to us to live anywhere else because a life separated from place is no life worth leading," wrote Moncure, a former state delegate and circuit-court clerk from Stafford County.

I'm not one of these people who bandies about talk of the South "rising again." But if you move to Virginia, you really ought to be prepared. Southern hospitality is usually extended to all but those who say, "I can't believe I'm in 'the South,'" as if they're modern-day Columbuses surprised by the fact that the world doesn't drop off at the Mason-Dixon.

This is not an admonishment against griping. As Moncure told me this week, just try to learn something before you bellyache. Complain insightfully.

You never know: We just could be right about some things.

For example: I ordered one of the swanky "low carb" meals at a restaurant the other night. Guess what the side order was: pork rinds.

A food I normally associate with those small-town craft shows my mother says have nothing but "painted-up wood" is now trendy.

Maybe I should call Jeff Foxworthy and suggest he add this to his comedy show:

"If you go to a semi-fancy restaurant and order pork rinds with your meal, you just might be a Redneck"


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: dixie; south; southerner; virginia
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1 posted on 12/12/2003 7:36:45 AM PST by stainlessbanner
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To: stainlessbanner
All rednecks may be Southerners, but not all Southerners are rednecks. Which is why non-redneck Southerners make fun of rednecks. It's a class thing.
2 posted on 12/12/2003 7:41:06 AM PST by CobaltBlue
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To: CobaltBlue
I think it has more to do with all the Yankees moving down south...
3 posted on 12/12/2003 7:49:52 AM PST by 2banana
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To: stainlessbanner
the last two presidents from the South--Carter and Clinton

Since when is Texas not part of the South? If memory serves, our current President (God bless him!) happens to be from there...

4 posted on 12/12/2003 7:51:23 AM PST by RebelBanker (Deo Vindice)
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To: stainlessbanner
"Virginia is in the South, but 'Southerners' here are disappearing"

I've been saying for the past 30 years that VA USED to be part of the South.

5 posted on 12/12/2003 7:56:07 AM PST by Lee'sGhost (Crom!)
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To: RebelBanker
He might be FROM there, but his roots are in New England. ;^)
6 posted on 12/12/2003 7:57:35 AM PST by Constitution Day (Thomas: "Apparently, the marketplace of ideas is to be fully open only to defamers, nude dancers...")
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To: stainlessbanner
Great post. I agree with the article. I'm a native Virginian from the Shenandoah Valley who lives in Fairfax now. I certainly don't consider myself a "southerner" like I did growing up. Native Virginians are few and far between around here.

Everytime it snows and someone says "people from here don't know how to drive in the snow" I tell them to ask around and see how many people are from "here". Not very many usually.

7 posted on 12/12/2003 7:59:46 AM PST by MP5
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To: RebelBanker
He was actually born in New Haven, CT (Papa Bush was attending Yale at the time), and he spent most of his youth between Andover, MA and New Haven (Phillips-Exeter and Yale).
8 posted on 12/12/2003 8:04:03 AM PST by El Conservador ("No blood for oil!"... Then don't drive, you moron!!!)
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To: MP5
I got news for you, people from the North can't drive in snow either evidenced by all the wrecks I saw in the Northeast on the Weather Channel last week...
9 posted on 12/12/2003 8:05:04 AM PST by Hatteras (Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps...)
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To: stainlessbanner
Living here in PA I can see the North (NY, New England) and I can see the South, as it were. Boy, would I ever love to be able to move to the South.
10 posted on 12/12/2003 8:05:07 AM PST by ikka
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To: Constitution Day
You're right, the Bush family are the definition of Yankees who moved to the south for business reasons. People conveniently forget that.

Our current President was born in New England and was educated there. I think it's great, he is a mixture of Yankee and Southerner. I think that makes him well rounded and more likely to view issues in a national rather than sectional manner. He can relate to different types of people and the way they think and live, that is why people all over the country like him personally. Someone who lives their whole life with just a northern, southern, eastern or western point of view, usually doesn't make a good national leader.
11 posted on 12/12/2003 8:10:10 AM PST by XRdsRev
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To: RebelBanker
Since when is Texas not part of the South?

A New York teenager (in New York) asked one of my daughter's friends if she rode a horse to school.

Her reply?

"My daddy don't believe in no book larnin', y'hear?"

Misconceptions about the South are legion.

12 posted on 12/12/2003 8:12:36 AM PST by jimt
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To: stainlessbanner; yankhater; Mudboy Slim; Corin Stormhands; iceskater; jla
Good post!
13 posted on 12/12/2003 8:13:14 AM PST by sultan88 ("I ain't sayin' you ain't pretty, all I'm saying I'm not ready...")
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To: HalfFull
Ping from one native Virginian to another.
14 posted on 12/12/2003 8:14:37 AM PST by Al B.
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To: 2banana
After April 1865, well, we to some extent all became 'Yankees'.


15 posted on 12/12/2003 8:14:45 AM PST by AmericanInTokyo (NORTH KOREA is a DANGEROUS CANCER in late stages; we still only meditate and take herbal medicines)
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To: Hatteras; MP5
Everytime it snows and someone says "people from here don't know how to drive in the snow"...

I got news for you, people from the North can't drive in snow either...

The truth is actually much simpler, as I've learned after driving in, around, and through many, many parts of this country - the truth is, most people just don't know drive. Period. Doesn't matter where you are - North, South, East or West. Doesn't matter if it's day or night. Doesn't matter what the weather is - rain, snow, fog, or sunny, clear and 80 degrees. The real problem is that no matter where you are, you're going to be sharing the road with a pack of a-holes who just don't know how to drive in a reasonable or safe manner. It's really not a regional thing, as far as I can tell ;)

16 posted on 12/12/2003 8:17:15 AM PST by general_re (Knife goes in, guts come out! That's what Osaka Food Concern is all about!)
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To: general_re
...most people just don't know how to drive.
17 posted on 12/12/2003 8:18:05 AM PST by general_re (Knife goes in, guts come out! That's what Osaka Food Concern is all about!)
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To: stainlessbanner
The Yankeefication of the South
18 posted on 12/12/2003 8:18:12 AM PST by FReepaholic (Never Forget: www.september-11-videos.com)
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To: general_re
You are right. The various "DMV's" are really not doing their job.
19 posted on 12/12/2003 8:19:41 AM PST by AmericanInTokyo (NORTH KOREA is a DANGEROUS CANCER in late stages; we still only meditate and take herbal medicines)
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To: ikka
Both regions have benefits and drawbacks. Just like the entire US, there are +'s and -'s everywhere. New England has a great deal to offer, incredible history, unbelievable natural beauty and in many areas, great economic prosperity. The South has a great deal to offer also, incredible history, unbelievable natural beauty and in many areas, great economic prosperity.

Most Americans are generally the same, they have regional pride, they care about their family and their country and they want to do the right thing. I kind of crack up reading some articles and posts which make it seem like folks from different parts of the US are from different planets. I have met friendly honest people in the north and nasty dishonest bastards in the south and vica versa. We are all Americans first as far as I am concerned.

P.S. - I think people would be amazed at the number of southerners who move north. That is an issue that is never brought up. I live in central NJ and my area has a large number of southern transplants, especially single women who live and work in and around NYC.
20 posted on 12/12/2003 8:20:10 AM PST by XRdsRev
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