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Social Predation 101: Now showing in classrooms near you
Sierra Times ^ | 12-11-03 | Andy Donnach

Posted on 12/12/2003 5:24:31 AM PST by SJackson

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To: Tax-chick
the government is bound by rules. The best example is the bill of rights. I didn't suggest that the governemnt should be a party to the contract. But the contract between the school and the parent might protect the school. Providing the school acts in good faith. The governemnt honors many types of legal status. Corporation are non-profit or profit. Bank charters or federal or state. Retirement vehicles are tax exempt under certain circumstances and legal categories.

Do you have a link or some source of information that expands on the Hillsdale College (your reference). I wonder how we can learn lessons from whatever this is about.

I am not going to launch into a counter offensive regarding your view of freedom. I assume you added it as an afterthought.
21 posted on 12/12/2003 9:55:41 AM PST by reed_inthe_wind
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To: yoe
I teach 7th grade. I agree with every word you said. I am not, nor will I ever be, a member of that infernal, socialist, liberal organization.

22 posted on 12/12/2003 9:59:01 AM PST by FLAMING DEATH (Why do I carry a .45? Because they don't make a .46!)
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To: reed_inthe_wind
The government is bound by rules. The best example is the bill of rights.

I don't mean to be rude, but have you noticed what's happened to the Bill of Rights lately? Are you aware of Wednesday's decision on freedom of speech? You will be if you try to say anything publicly about a political candidate :-(.

Hillsdale College (www.hillsdale.edu) refuses to accept any government funds, in order to be free of government regulation. This includes - particularly germane to our discussion - not allowing students to use government financial aid of any kind ... no grants, no guaranteed student loans, nothing. The government required control if a single student on campus were using funds in any way connected to the government.

Some people think this wouldn't be a problem with education vouchers for primary/secondary education. I disagree. Currently, parents can use private schools or homeschool with minimal (varying by state) interference by the government. The school systems and the states and the Feds HATE IT. They would love to have parents taking government funds, so they could take control of private education.

A better option, in my opinion, would be to give all the taxpayers back the money that's being spent by the government on education, and let parents buy the education they want. At one time, our country had private schools for those who could pay, and private charity schools for those who couldn't. It worked fine. John Taylor Gatto and Samuel Blumenfeld, among others, have written on the history of the U.S. education system; their books are in the libraries, and many articles online.

23 posted on 12/12/2003 10:16:17 AM PST by Tax-chick (It's hard to see the rainbow through glasses dark as these.)
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To: Tax-chick
I don't think you are being rude. I appreciate your time. I agree with you that the bill of rights is being degraded by activist judges, but we haven't lost the rule of law yet. A "dumbed down" population, and the subsequent liberal party platforms are the problem. That is why we need to free education. I made a point in an earlier post that the freedom that you and your children enjoy depends on the quality of your fellow citizens. Am I wrong?

Hillsdale college employed the exact strategy that I threw out to you as an option. It is a school that exists without government aid to assure its indepence. We need laws to guarantee that schools like this can maintain substantial freedom from interference. (Thanks for the link, I am superficially aware of this situation, and I will study it a bit more when time permits.)
24 posted on 12/12/2003 12:17:52 PM PST by reed_inthe_wind
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To: reed_inthe_wind
I made a point in an earlier post that the freedom that you and your children enjoy depends on the quality of your fellow citizens. Am I wrong?

Well, I suppose that remains to be seen. Certainly we're less free today than our grandparents were 60 years ago, although better off in some other ways. I'm very fond of antibiotics, air conditioning, and indoor plumbing, none of which were available to my grandparents.

I think we all agree that government control of education is producing ... citizens who can easily be controlled by the government, and that's the intent, even if it isn't publicized as such. My position is that vouchers are not much of a solution, because the control will follow the money. Break the link between government and education, and we'd have something!

You could make the same calculations in the case of, for example, health care. Government money = government making the decisions. The old way was to pay cash, or receive private charity. If we could go back to that ...

25 posted on 12/12/2003 12:30:24 PM PST by Tax-chick (It's hard to see the rainbow through glasses dark as these.)
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To: Tax-chick
(Iserbyt)

A CHRONOLOGICAL PAPER TRAIL

......the deliberate dumbing down of america is a chronological history of the past 100+ years of education reform. Each chapter takes a period of history and recounts the significant events, including important geopolitical and societal contextual information. Citations from government plans, policy documents, and key writings by leading reformers record the rise of the modern education reform movement. Americans of all ages will welcome this riveting expose of what really happened to what was once the finest education system in the world.

Most teachers, college professors, and all NEA members do not want you to know about this book. It is a must read if parents are to ever take their public schools back from the hands of those who abuse your children with social engineering every day.

26 posted on 12/12/2003 2:02:52 PM PST by yoe (Mrs. Clinton's heart is rumored to be as big as a Caraway Seed, but I think that is an exaggeration.)
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To: yoe
Thanks - marked it to look at it later. The book is from the 80's, though? Gatto and Blumenfeld are more recent.
27 posted on 12/12/2003 2:10:42 PM PST by Tax-chick (Nobody's indoctrinating my children ... except me!)
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To: SJackson
If I have kids, I will keep them away government schools.
28 posted on 12/12/2003 2:17:05 PM PST by Kuksool
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To: yoe
It's Yoe! How you're doing tonight? I enjoyed your reply.
29 posted on 12/12/2003 3:54:04 PM PST by HankReardon
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