Posted on 12/09/2003 4:05:51 PM PST by Ispy4u
In seeking to find the equitableness in the case against Lt. Col Allen B. West, one struggles as the news poured out of Iraq, in regard to the action of the troops of the 4th ID--which Col West was a part of up until he was removed from his battalion command-- with in the span of one week, included the following:
November 17 Reuters reported: Angered by bomb attacks ... the commander of a US battalion in Iraq sent his tanks and armored vehicles through the streets on Monday in a demonstration of firepower to insurgents. Weapons of choice: Abrams tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, “.. Infantrymen in full battle dress... machine-guns mounted on Humvees...”
Message cast: It’s in your best interest to not resist us; cooperate with us; tell us what you know of the activities aiding this insurgency. Or there will be severe and fearsome consequences to pay. November 18, World Net Daily report:
'Heroic' officer faces Army hearing Lt. Col. West argues aggressive interrogation saved lives of troops Article breakdown: after suffering previous ambush attacks to his troops, upon being tipped-off of yet another organized attack designed for he and his men; in an attempt to advert that pending attack, Lt. Col. Allen B. West-- former commander of the 4th ID’s 2 battalion of it’s 20th Field Artillery Regiment--used a demonstration of fire power. Thus, successfully obtained legitimate human intel sufficient to avoid that foe-scheduled appointment with death for he and his troops.
Weapon of choice: 9 mm weapon. Fired twice; close to the mans head; with the urging: “Talk or I kill.”
The man, who had been with his female interrogators for two hours and yet only claimed he knew nothing, suddenly with the aid to his memory granted him by the aggressive actions of Col. West, was blest with total recall.
Additionally on November 18, Washington Post carried a story: This, a narrative of this division’s major general, MG Ray Odierno. It Spelled out, how he pressed to drive home his message to officers under his command: “ ... make sure you understand my intent: that I want to be lethal. Make them, (any insurgents) understand.”
This General is said to “care deeply” for his soldiers. Said to be a man who “lead by example”, a no nonsense kind of a leader. Article also spotlighted, General Odierno was “the youngest division commander and one of the most rapidly promoted officers of West Point's Class of 1976.”
Next caption: 18 November, Los Angeles Times: U.S. Flexes Its Muscles in Iraq's North, Tells of “Intimidation campaign.” Used to 'send a signal.’ Weapon of choice: “a missile carrying a 500-pound warhead.”
Message implied: No more footsies; Cooperate: Or there will be hell to pay.
November 19, Reuters: Emotional U.S. officer admits wrongdoing in Iraq.
Opening paragraphs quote a man who says he knows his actions were not in line with Article 128 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, but argues his actions were in line with his will to do all he could to keep his promise to the families he and his boys left back in Ft. Hood, TX. That being, bring them home alive.
Weapon of choice: recall the 9mm pistol.
Intended end: Cooperate; or else.
Twentieth November, Army Times: “Military in Iraq gunning more firepower as scare tactic for insurgents”
Weapons of choice: “artillery, tanks and aircraft.” Message sent: Conveyed in article’s title.
All these, from the ranks of the 4th ID.
Now the hearing is past, and once he receives the recommendation from the Article 32 hearing officer the decision of what to do to Col. West lies with Major General Ray Odierno.
Should that recommendation be to proceed with a court martial, the General is in a tough spot.
How can he in good conscience do any thing less than decide to bring this--except for it’s sombourous possible ends --ridiculum on our will to be lethal without apology, to an all ready all-to-late and none-to-soon abrupt end?
Mean while, a division watches. So too, a nation.
Likewise an most lethal foe.
All-the-while, daily this past week the death toll in the 4th ID continued to rise. And as a mother of one 4th ID soldier, we can only pray our son is blessed enough to be serving under the command of a man the likes of the height, width and stock not far from that seen in Lt. Col Allen B. West.
Debi M. Brand 918-283-2477 20405 E. Hwy. 20 Claremore, OK 74019 Mother of a 4th ID Soldier, Serving in Iraq since Early April, When his unit first went in
This is a new kind of war that America engages in, and President George W. Bush was right in taking pre-emptive action to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq.
That same reason for sending American troops into Iraq also justifies the action Lt. Col. West used to interrogate the Iraqi suspect.
The is not a Marquis of Queensbury war. Our men are fighting for the survival of America.
Why would you want to do that?
LVM
It isn't surprizing to know a MOM would want her son to serve under the likes of LTC West. God willing, the charges will be dismissed. It is hard to find positive articles about our military in a liberal press, when they are driven by a social agenda. Point being, the feel good, mamby pamby, NO GUNS crowd (except for "criminals", cause that's what you end up with, with gun control)who would rather see our guys killed, than to see us rough up a terrorist to save some of our own.
I guess I should just say "thanks" for pinging me to a thread that was somewhat showing the "other" side.
Now we'll see if General Odierno has the courage to DO the RIGHT thing and DISMISS these charges, and restore LTC Wests command to him!!
Okay, but I don't suspect you'll be able to sustain your position any better than you did in the last two ; )
So you equate Col. West's shooting his gun in the air to scare a prisoner into revealing plans for an ambush that could wipe out his men with the Ba'athist Party's torture and murder of hundreds of thousands of their own people? Don't take this the wrong way, but that is without question the dumbest thing I've ever seen posted on this website. You should be ashamed of yourself.
"OMG the world is going to end!!!! A ruuuuuuuuuuuuule was broooooooooooken!!!!
And I suspect their teachers got quite a few apples.
It was a favorite interrogation strategy used of the late and unlamented Mukhbarat. Yes, I am equating it as such--the first step onto the slippery slope of "the ends justifies the means" is the easiest to avoid and the hardest to recover from.
Incidentally, it has yet to be proven that LTC West's "interrogation" accomplished what he claims it did.
Also, if (a) the ambush was actually going to happen (not established as fact) and (b) it really COULD "wipe out his men" (an entire battalion), then LTC West should have resigned his commission in favor of someone who can demonstrate basic tactical competence.
Don't take this the wrong way, but that is without question the dumbest thing I've ever seen posted on this website.
Try reading your own screeds on this topic.
You must have caught this disease from Ispy - constantly questioning the integrity and character of others.
Count on this much: her future career in the US military is toast.
-archy-/-
I'm not overdramatizing what he did. He willfully violated orders; he gave illegal orders to his personnel, who have since been punished for obeying those orders.
You cannot punish the subordinate and then pat the senior on the head for the same action.
He simply got the job done the most efficient was possible and didn't hurt anybody - a fact which seems to be lost on you both.
It hasn't been established as fact that he actually got the job done as he described it--a fact which seems to be lost on the West groupies.
You are acting like one of these clownish public school administrators who discover one of their little Zero Tolerance rules was technically broken.
This is what we know, factually:
(1) LTC West did violate orders from his seniors, and gave illegal orders to his subordinates.
(2) An ambush that may or may not have been actually planned did not take place.
(3) No one has demonstrated a solid connection between (1) and (2). Indeed, no one has actually demonstrated that (2) was actually about to happen.
(4) West's subordinates have been punished for obeying West's illegal orders.
(5) West now faces prosecution for issuing those orders and disobeying lawful orders to begin with.
That's all we know at this time.
No rebuttal of the facts, merely ad hominem.
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