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Vegans vs. Atkins
Salon ^ | December 8, 2003 | Katharine Mieszkowski

Posted on 12/09/2003 6:41:38 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife

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To: sarasota
Some even say I don't look my age.

Well I hope they mean you look younger ;)

21 posted on 12/09/2003 7:14:39 AM PST by Hillary's Folly (Imagine there's no Hillary. It's easy if you try.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; Maven
"A diet which tells you that you really can't eat all fruits and very few vegetables is not a healthful diet"

She may or may not be correct.

What's certain is that she isn't describing Atkins.

Dan

22 posted on 12/09/2003 7:15:56 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I ran into a friend the other day, who has cut her carbohydrate intake down a la Atkins. She is a diabetic, and was on 7 injections of insulin a day.

She's now using no insulin at all. She eats tons of green vegetables, but stays away from bread, potatos and other starchy foods. She eats more chicken and low fat meats than steak.

But, I guess she's not healthy, because this animal rights wacko says so.
23 posted on 12/09/2003 7:20:17 AM PST by Darnright
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To: BibChr
I still find it interesting that people who don't do their research still feel comfortable giving advice on the topic. A lot of theories and careers are under the gun and people will naturally try to defend their positions.

I don't think they've read Atkins.

24 posted on 12/09/2003 7:20:37 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: danneskjold; Cincinnatus; Cincinatus' Wife; SamAdams76; Maven; jennyp
You know, it occurs to me that, if the PETA people are right, their smartest move would be to shut up.

Follow me here.

IF it is true that everyone who goes Atkins WILL DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH because they eat tasty animals...

...and IF it is true that human beings are no more precious or valuable than animals...

...and IF the goal is that nobody be alive to eat tasty animals (you see where I'm going?)...

...THEN they should just let the Atkins people party on, die horrible deaths, and thus (A) reduce the population of tasty-animal-eaters, and (B) serve as a somber warning to everyone else!

Dan
25 posted on 12/09/2003 7:21:13 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Hillary's Folly
Yes, they do! I must admit, however, that I "feel" my age--thank goodness!
26 posted on 12/09/2003 7:22:16 AM PST by sarasota
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To: veronica
I'd eat dirt if it helped me stay slim. :)</

Then you'll enjoy these peat pellets.  Even taste better than rice cakes.

27 posted on 12/09/2003 7:22:36 AM PST by ClintonBeGone
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To: Crazieman
I had a grandma that drank water. She got cancer and died.

Hey! My grandpa also got cancer and died! He ALSO drank water! Every day for 83 years!

Folks, we have a trend developing. As a matter of fact, I'll bet EVERY person who has had cancer has, at one point or another, drank water. That's it. I'll never allow my kids to drink water again.

28 posted on 12/09/2003 7:22:48 AM PST by Marie (I smell... COFFEE! coffeecoffeecoffeecoffee! COFFEE!!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
>> "But you don’t need a 300-page diet book to advise you on making adjustments. Just eat smaller portions less often—and cut down on the junk." <<

If people could easily do this, there would be a lot less fat people. However, for some people, that is not at all easy to do. If fact, it is darn near impossible.
29 posted on 12/09/2003 7:23:15 AM PST by sd-joe
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To: BibChr
She's not correct. One can live a perfectly normal, healthful life without meat/poultry/fish/eggs. People all over the world are doing it.
30 posted on 12/09/2003 7:23:27 AM PST by sarasota
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To: rellimpank
I think the basic rule of thumb should be to avoid PROCESSED food. If one follows that rule, they're more than half way there to healty eating.
31 posted on 12/09/2003 7:24:01 AM PST by ClintonBeGone
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To: sd-joe
However, for some people, that is not at all easy to do. If fact, it is darn near impossible.

How so?

32 posted on 12/09/2003 7:24:39 AM PST by ClintonBeGone
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To: sd-joe
It's got a lot to do with what you eat, not how much. Quality, not quantity. More raw foods (apples, cukes, nuts, and the like) will literally flush out the system--along with lots of water, not carbonated beverages or sugared fruit drinks. It becomes a lifestyle as one feels better (and loses weight).
33 posted on 12/09/2003 7:25:41 AM PST by sarasota
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
16-year-old from Sturgeon, Mo., who dropped dead from cardio-respiratory arrest at school while suffering from low levels of calcium and potassium in the first days of the diet

LOL. NOBODY is going to be killed by ANY diet in the first days. What a crock.

34 posted on 12/09/2003 7:25:47 AM PST by sd-joe
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To: sd-joe
Exactly. He had low mineral levels to start with. Probably didn't know what they were nor where to get them. (Hint: raw food.)
35 posted on 12/09/2003 7:26:57 AM PST by sarasota
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To: sd-joe; All
Ask John

Why do so many vegans seem so frail?

Dear John,

My family just made the vegan switch. We are confident in our decision, but have one question. All the vegans we have personally known have in common a thin, frail look and a pallid complexion....not exactly the picture of health. Is this "look" normal or simply the result of an improperly planned diet? How can we avoid this for ourselves, and especially for our kids? I appreciate your time in responding to my question.

Tammy

Dear Tammy,

I know what you mean. For one thing, vegans, as a rule, are much leaner than others in our society. Against the backdrop of what passes for normal in our culture, vegans can seem downright skinny.

I remember going to Europe when I was nineteen. I was used to seeing American cars, and by comparison, most of the automobiles in Europe seemed really small and frail. In Italy there might have been one or two people driving Ferraris, but almost everyone drove tiny little Fiats that you never saw in this country. In Germany, there might have been a few Mercedes or BMWs, but Volkswagen Beetles were huge compared to what most people drove. In France, you saw mainly two-cylinder Citroens that looked tiny compared to any American car. Coming from the States, I was shocked at how small the cars appeared.

Over the months, though, I got quite used to the size of European cars, and came to see them as normal. Then, when I would occasionally see an American car, it looked gargantuan, and even grotesque. And when I returned to this country, it took me a long time not to see almost all U.S. cars as abnormally large.

So much depends on what you have come to think of as normal. So much depends on your point of reference.

The data are quite convincing, though, that people who over the years keep their weight fairly steady at ten to twenty pounds under what is average in the United States typically live much longer and healthier lives than those whose weights are "normal" in this society.

I remember many years ago meeting a man who was very thin. I didn't say anything, but inwardly, I thought, "Oh my, this man is so skinny, he must be unhealthy." Later, when I learned who he was, I felt utterly chagrined. He happened to be the reigning world champion in the marathon run! How wrong I had been!

Of course, sometimes we meet people who are very thin, and they aren't healthy. Of the people who are very thin in our society, a substantial number are not well. People who have cancer and undergo chemotherapy often lose a lot of weight. People living with AIDS and other wasting diseases often become emaciated. And though it is not widely recognized, we have a real problem in this society with hunger. Some people, many of them homeless, become exceedingly thin and vulnerable to disease because they aren't eating enough food. Severe alcoholics and heroin addicts are also very often underweight.

People who are very thin for any of these reasons, of course, are far from healthy. Since many of the really thin people we encounter in this society are underweight for these kinds of reasons, we may have come to associate low weight with a lack of health. Thus, we may tend to assume that any very lean person we meet is unwell. There are few vegans in this society, and we simply aren't used to seeing people who are much thinner than the average in our culture, and who are also vibrantly healthy.

A few weeks ago, I gave a lecture, and afterwards a young man, obviously a football player type, came up to me and said that what I said made a lot of sense, but I seemed to be quite thin. I could feel how he had me stereotyped, and that he was assuming that because I am lean therefore I am weak. I asked him how much he weighed, and how much he could bench press. He said he weighed 200 pounds, and could bench press his weight. "That's good," I said, knowing that few men are strong enough to be able to bench press their weight. Then I continued: "I weigh 160 pounds, and I can also bench press your weight." His jaw dropped. "Really?" he asked. "Really," I said.

Of course, just because a person is eating a vegan diet will not assure they are healthy. As you point out, there are people who are eating vegan diets that aren't healthy. In some cases, they aren't getting enough Omega-3 fatty acids or vitamin B-12. In some cases they aren't eating enough healthy fats. In some cases, they are still eating too much junk food.

As well, some people adopt a vegan diet because they are unhealthy, and are looking for help. For them, even if their vegan diet is to be part of their healing process, it may take time for the benefits to manifest.

And most importantly, diet is only one of the factors that influence overall health. If you don't exercise, your muscles won't develop. Even the healthiest diet can only do so much if your idea of exercise is pushing the TV remote control button, if your inevitable response to life's difficulties is to wallow in self-pity, if your relationships are depreciating and invalidating, and if your job or living situation exposes you to environmental toxins. Vegans who don't take care of themselves will be nearly as unhealthy as meat-eaters who don't.

On the other hand, vegans who do take care of themselves can be magnificently healthy. One need only look at the many remarkable vegan athletes to dispel the idea that vegans are all frail and pallid. To name just a few, there's Ridgely Abele, winner of eight national championships in karate; and Ruth Heidrich, six-time Ironwoman and USA track and field Master's champion; and Cheryl Marek and Estelle Gray, world record holders in cross-country tandem cycling.

How can you and your kids avoid the "look" you described? Make sure you all get plenty of exercise and fresh air. Keep your lines of communication open and alive. Support each other's dreams and passions. Celebrate your differences. Laugh lots and cry when necessary. Practice random acts of kindness and senseless acts of beauty. And look for the good in yourselves and in everyone you meet.

If you bring your love to everyone you meet, and everything you do, you will never look frail and pallid. You will be radiant with passion and purpose. And there will never be an end to the rippling effects your love has on the world.

Thanks so much for your question.

Your friend,

John

36 posted on 12/09/2003 7:28:30 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Crazieman
I had a grandma that drank water. She got cancer and died.

Bottled or tap?

37 posted on 12/09/2003 7:28:30 AM PST by BlueYonder
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To: ClintonBeGone; veronica; Poohbah
How about some veal parmesan instead?

Just so long as the veal is dolphin-safe. :)
38 posted on 12/09/2003 7:29:13 AM PST by hchutch ("I don't see what the big deal is, I really don't." - Major Vic Deakins, USAF (ret.))
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To: Cincinatus
I don't think it's as much a strawman argument as it is simple begging the question, or petitio principii.
39 posted on 12/09/2003 7:30:42 AM PST by krb (the statement on the other side of this tagline is false)
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To: Darnright
She is a diabetic, and was on 7 injections of insulin a day.

Sounds like Dr. Bernstein. I had a friend who put her husband on the diet for about 6 months. He went from 4 shots a day to just one little one. My son has just been diagnosed with Type I diabetes. I'm trying to learn and be a good mama and do everything the doctor says. The boy should be getting a pump in Feb. I'm going to wait a few years, then have him do his own research and decide if he's ready to make the effort to try a very low carb diet. This is not the kind of thing I think I should force on a kid.

40 posted on 12/09/2003 7:33:48 AM PST by Marie (I smell... COFFEE! coffeecoffeecoffeecoffee! COFFEE!!)
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