Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Army Right To Punish Lt. Col. West
Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 8 Dec 2003 | Jay Bookman

Posted on 12/09/2003 4:16:55 AM PST by Ispy4u

Under the strain of command in a dangerous situation, Lt. Col. Allen West committed a serious error in judgment. And in a military environment, such errors by a commanding officer cannot go unpunished.

Informed on Aug. 20 that an Iraqi policeman might have information about potential attacks on West and his troops, the colonel invited soldiers under his command to beat the suspect as West looked on. When that did not produce the desired effect, West threatened the prisoner, first firing a pistol into the air, then holding the pistol to the policeman's head and firing a shot into the ground nearby.

Not surprisingly, the terrified suspect then began babbling information. As is often the case when such crude techniques are used, it later proved impossible to verify whether that information was accurate or whether it had been invented by the suspect in a desperate attempt to save his life.

Nor was it clear that the suspect was guilty. As U.S. intelligence officers testified in a preliminary hearing in the case, Iraqis will often finger an innocent person to American troops as a way to wreak personal revenge on each other.

Unfortunately for West, there is no question whatsoever about his own behavior in the case, or that it violated U.S. Army regulations. After complaints were filed by other soldiers, the colonel was relieved of command and is awaiting word whether he will be court-martialed on charges of aggravated assault and communicating a threat. If found guilty, the well-respected officer could be sentenced to up to eight years in prison.

It is hard not to feel sympathy for West, and almost impossible to sit in judgment of him from afar. "If it's the lives of my men and their safety," he said in his preliminary hearing, "I'd go through hell with a gasoline can." His case has even drawn congressional interest, with two U.S. senators suggesting that West deserves to be commended for his actions, not prosecuted. And certainly, a prison term does seem an unduly harsh punishment.

It is even more difficult to condemn West for violating the standards of the Geneva Convention for warfare and occupation when more senior U.S. officials are themselves treating those rules as inconvenient guidelines that can be ignored at will. The hundreds of prisoners captured in Afghanistan and held under harsh conditions by the United States in Guantanamo Bay, for example, have been ruled ineligible for protection under the Geneva Convention because they are supposedly "enemy combatants" rather than prisoners of war.

That effort to redefine the problem calls to mind the argument used by the North Vietnamese more than 30 years ago to justify their cruel treatment of captured American aviators. John McCain and others in the Hanoi Hilton were not prisoners of war, we were told, but war criminals who deserved what they got. In other words, it is always easy to find a justification if you want one badly enough.

It is also true that in Iraq, we are engaged in a bitter struggle with people who do not recognize such distinctions. As the West case illustrates, it is tempting to then fight the battle on their terms, and in rare cases it may indeed be necessary to do so.

But those and other distinctions are part of why we're fighting. We believe such rules are important to civilized life; our opponents do not. In the eyes of the Iraqis, it is hard to distinguish ourselves from the previous regime if we ourselves do not attempt to live by the rules we claim to uphold. The suspect threatened by West, for example, was a policeman, and hundreds of U.S. personnel are trying hard every day to convince Iraqi policemen that such tactics are simply unacceptable.

For military reasons, punishing West in some way is mandatory. The tactics that he used that day contradict the values this country is supposed to be defending. Allowing an officer of his rank to evade consequences for such behavior would send an unmistakable signal up and down the ranks and greatly erode the discipline our soldiers rely upon in tough situations.

Certainly, the pressures of combat help explain his mistake. They do not excuse it.

Jay Bookman is the deputy editorial page editor.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: alanbwest; allenwest; col; ltcwest; west
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 181-200201-220221-240 ... 281-283 next last
To: BSunday
So do you want to debate or snipe?

I don't care either way, you'll lose.
201 posted on 12/09/2003 10:35:41 AM PST by Ispy4u
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 199 | View Replies]

To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
Looking at your home page, I need to thank YOU for YOUR service! You were in the real stuff, I only patrol around on submarines.
202 posted on 12/09/2003 10:37:05 AM PST by BSunday (I'm not the bad guy. Hillary is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 198 | View Replies]

To: Ispy4u
I can debate if you want to. I have yet to see any coherent argument on your part, other than to doubt people's veracity or motives (mine included). Although you left me wondering when you posted another thread on this same topic a few minutes ago, making basically the same points. Why is that ?
203 posted on 12/09/2003 10:40:01 AM PST by BSunday (I'm not the bad guy. Hillary is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 201 | View Replies]

To: Ispy4u
lol.....nice flamewar.

Btw, every single General and Colonel now working for FOX News as a military analyist (of which there are several) essentially has the same take on the matter -- that Colonel West acted as they themselves would've acted, and that court martialing him not only would play havoc with troop morale, but would also encourage the enemy.

Sometimes initiative is required in battlefield situations, and sometimes that necessarily requires breaking a reg or two. The Freepers who believe otherwise would've fit in very nicely in the Third Reich, where everything was done "by the book" at all times. ...."I was just following orders and regulations." ......One doesn't need to think on his feet. Thankfully most Americans are made of different stuff -- we can improvise when necessary.

204 posted on 12/09/2003 10:41:46 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BSunday
If I find an article on the net I will post it here if it doesn't already exist, in order to preserve the record.

Unlike DU we debate articles from both sides and this issue may very well have long term consequences for us in the military. URLs change and articles get moved to archives never to be seen again, but here they are preserved with value added by logical debate.

What I'm wondering about is why the conservative columnists and papers have all but dropped this issue. There are very few new articles about this, I suspect there will be a few when the CG makes his decision.
205 posted on 12/09/2003 10:46:40 AM PST by Ispy4u
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 203 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Mojo
The Freepers who believe otherwise would've fit in very nicely in the Third Reich, where everything was done "by the book" at all times. ...."I was just following orders and regulations."

Excellent point. It reminds me of a movie called "Equilibrium" where in an effort to avoid another war, humankind established a totalitarian/fascist society, the effects of which were exactly the same as continual war. My favorite line comes when one of the enforcers says "What good has this society done us", which was answered by his partner, words to the effect that "we have eliminated war and murder". The first guy then said "What is it you think that we do ?"

206 posted on 12/09/2003 10:51:15 AM PST by BSunday (I'm not the bad guy. Hillary is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 204 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Mojo
They are working for Fox now and don't have to answer to the UCMJ. If they think it's so damn wrong why the hell didn't they fight to change those rules over the past two years. The POW/detainee rules for GWOT have been unchanged since Afghanistan post 9-11.

Battlefield initiative is very different from coercing information by threatening someones life. The guy was probably lying, it's been shown so many times that those techniques yield lies it's not even funny.

But to me the worst infraction is that he failed to set the proper example for his troops. Inexcusable IMO.
207 posted on 12/09/2003 10:52:20 AM PST by Ispy4u
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 204 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Mojo
PS I recommend that movie to all Freepers. It basically shows what happens when the "peace at all costs" people get their way.
208 posted on 12/09/2003 10:52:58 AM PST by BSunday (I'm not the bad guy. Hillary is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 204 | View Replies]

To: Ispy4u
it's been shown so many times that those techniques yield lies it's not even funny.

Sometimes they yeild lies, and sometimes they don't. Yeah, there are undoubtedly much better techniques for getting info out of the enemy, but those techniques require something Col. West didn't have -- time.

But to me the worst infraction is that he failed to set the proper example for his troops.

Actually, he set a terrific example -- he showed that the lives of his men are infinitely more important than a few ridiculous regulations.

209 posted on 12/09/2003 11:00:46 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 207 | View Replies]

To: BSunday
Thanks for the movie tip. ......I'll check it out.
210 posted on 12/09/2003 11:01:26 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 208 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Mojo
PS wait til you see the gun kata....outstanding!
211 posted on 12/09/2003 11:06:04 AM PST by BSunday (I'm not the bad guy. Hillary is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 210 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Mojo
So how much time did he have?

I haven't seen anything that proves he didn't have time, in fact the interrogation had been going on for at least several hours before he showed up. Did he have a day? Did he have a week? What friggin commander worth his weight can't think to employ mitigating countermeasures to the threat he faced?

I don't buy the "he didn't have time" line. It seems to me it wasn't imminent, if it was going to happen at all. After all the initial information may well have been a lie to bring trouble to the policeman.
212 posted on 12/09/2003 11:06:35 AM PST by Ispy4u
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 209 | View Replies]

To: Ispy4u
Is casting doubt on the character of others all you can do? You're starting to sound like a very annoying 8 track. Just admit you have no valid argument for the punishment of West except your desire to see a military guy punished.
213 posted on 12/09/2003 11:19:41 AM PST by BSunday (I'm not the bad guy. Hillary is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 212 | View Replies]

To: Ispy4u
You can call it whatever you wish. What comes out from your posts is an intemperate desire to see West punished for his action.

My position is that I have no quarrel with his action. Whereas, you have tried, through several specious and hyperbolic arguements have attempted to persuade us that your vitriole in this matter makes sense.

214 posted on 12/09/2003 11:22:47 AM PST by raybbr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 182 | View Replies]

To: BSunday
I've made valid points here. Just because you work on a boat and will probably never have to handle an EPW you probably don't think it's a big deal.

The Army takes many prisoners and the rules detailing their handling are based in law. Because I believe in the rule of law I can't agree with LTC West's actions. What ever his punishment is doesn't matter to me, but I will argue to next light that his actions don't make him a hero.

215 posted on 12/09/2003 11:25:16 AM PST by Ispy4u
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 213 | View Replies]

To: raybbr
Fine you support his action.

I want to see justice.

I don't care what the punishment is, or really even if he is completely acquitted as long as it is made clear that disobeying orders comes with consequences.
216 posted on 12/09/2003 11:28:35 AM PST by Ispy4u
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 214 | View Replies]

To: Calpernia
Thanks for the ping. BTW, I received a nice thank you note from Mrs. West. Thinking of the stress she must be under, this was a very gracious gesture and greatly appreciated. Class shows.
217 posted on 12/09/2003 11:30:07 AM PST by Lucy Lake
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 119 | View Replies]

To: Ispy4u
That's funny, because I also happen to believe in the rule of law and I think his actions were entirely justified. To every rule there is an exception. Laws were not made to make us unthinking drones or slaves to government.
218 posted on 12/09/2003 11:31:50 AM PST by BSunday (I'm not the bad guy. Hillary is.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 215 | View Replies]

To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
I have been saying this all along and he just ignores that claim.
219 posted on 12/09/2003 11:44:14 AM PST by raybbr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 194 | View Replies]

To: BSunday
"I only patrol around on submarines".

Listen up.. we BOTH admire you immensely!!! I also want to thank you for directing me to my long neglected homepage! I just updated it! :o)

It is still a BOOK.. sigh. But there was some stuff I needed to add that is very current about Vietnam Vets getting the HepC virus from the airguns they used on us/them.

Plus, I added a tad to it. I know I know.. BUT.. I did put a warning at the top of the page about it BEING A BOOK!! LOL

220 posted on 12/09/2003 11:46:55 AM PST by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 202 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 181-200201-220221-240 ... 281-283 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson