Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Army Right To Punish Lt. Col. West
Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 8 Dec 2003 | Jay Bookman

Posted on 12/09/2003 4:16:55 AM PST by Ispy4u

Under the strain of command in a dangerous situation, Lt. Col. Allen West committed a serious error in judgment. And in a military environment, such errors by a commanding officer cannot go unpunished.

Informed on Aug. 20 that an Iraqi policeman might have information about potential attacks on West and his troops, the colonel invited soldiers under his command to beat the suspect as West looked on. When that did not produce the desired effect, West threatened the prisoner, first firing a pistol into the air, then holding the pistol to the policeman's head and firing a shot into the ground nearby.

Not surprisingly, the terrified suspect then began babbling information. As is often the case when such crude techniques are used, it later proved impossible to verify whether that information was accurate or whether it had been invented by the suspect in a desperate attempt to save his life.

Nor was it clear that the suspect was guilty. As U.S. intelligence officers testified in a preliminary hearing in the case, Iraqis will often finger an innocent person to American troops as a way to wreak personal revenge on each other.

Unfortunately for West, there is no question whatsoever about his own behavior in the case, or that it violated U.S. Army regulations. After complaints were filed by other soldiers, the colonel was relieved of command and is awaiting word whether he will be court-martialed on charges of aggravated assault and communicating a threat. If found guilty, the well-respected officer could be sentenced to up to eight years in prison.

It is hard not to feel sympathy for West, and almost impossible to sit in judgment of him from afar. "If it's the lives of my men and their safety," he said in his preliminary hearing, "I'd go through hell with a gasoline can." His case has even drawn congressional interest, with two U.S. senators suggesting that West deserves to be commended for his actions, not prosecuted. And certainly, a prison term does seem an unduly harsh punishment.

It is even more difficult to condemn West for violating the standards of the Geneva Convention for warfare and occupation when more senior U.S. officials are themselves treating those rules as inconvenient guidelines that can be ignored at will. The hundreds of prisoners captured in Afghanistan and held under harsh conditions by the United States in Guantanamo Bay, for example, have been ruled ineligible for protection under the Geneva Convention because they are supposedly "enemy combatants" rather than prisoners of war.

That effort to redefine the problem calls to mind the argument used by the North Vietnamese more than 30 years ago to justify their cruel treatment of captured American aviators. John McCain and others in the Hanoi Hilton were not prisoners of war, we were told, but war criminals who deserved what they got. In other words, it is always easy to find a justification if you want one badly enough.

It is also true that in Iraq, we are engaged in a bitter struggle with people who do not recognize such distinctions. As the West case illustrates, it is tempting to then fight the battle on their terms, and in rare cases it may indeed be necessary to do so.

But those and other distinctions are part of why we're fighting. We believe such rules are important to civilized life; our opponents do not. In the eyes of the Iraqis, it is hard to distinguish ourselves from the previous regime if we ourselves do not attempt to live by the rules we claim to uphold. The suspect threatened by West, for example, was a policeman, and hundreds of U.S. personnel are trying hard every day to convince Iraqi policemen that such tactics are simply unacceptable.

For military reasons, punishing West in some way is mandatory. The tactics that he used that day contradict the values this country is supposed to be defending. Allowing an officer of his rank to evade consequences for such behavior would send an unmistakable signal up and down the ranks and greatly erode the discipline our soldiers rely upon in tough situations.

Certainly, the pressures of combat help explain his mistake. They do not excuse it.

Jay Bookman is the deputy editorial page editor.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: alanbwest; allenwest; col; ltcwest; west
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 281-283 next last
To: OldCorps
I am currently a reservist. Active duty from 1990-2000 then into the reserves, back on active from 10/2001-11/2003. I will be going to Iraq next spring or summer.

I am a 96B, I was 11B for 6/10 while active. I can't tell you what my current capacity is but I do not sit in an office when I depoy.
121 posted on 12/09/2003 7:05:14 AM PST by Ispy4u
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 114 | View Replies]

To: Ispy4u
Maybe we could just drive through Baghdad and shoot everything that moves, hey, it's a battlefield right?

Yeah, that's exactly what we are saying. Now go get your baba and take a nap.

122 posted on 12/09/2003 7:05:25 AM PST by milan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: raybbr
Our service has nothing to do with "raising up in the eyes of the world" but we are duty bound to not bring shame and discredit on our nation.
123 posted on 12/09/2003 7:07:22 AM PST by Ispy4u
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 118 | View Replies]

To: OldCorps
Yeah I guess you're right, that may be even worse for moral once the word got out. Silly me...
124 posted on 12/09/2003 7:07:38 AM PST by Broadside Joe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 116 | View Replies]

To: Ispy4u
I hope to God that your commander is willing to beat the crap out of a terrorist conspirator, so that you aren't the recipient of a bullet that could have been stopped.

Me and my family are indepted to you. Good luck in Iraq, be safe, and please come back. I still disagree with you and I hope your CO does also.

125 posted on 12/09/2003 7:08:34 AM PST by milan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: Just another Joe
Failure of command

Read this one.

126 posted on 12/09/2003 7:09:10 AM PST by Ispy4u
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 115 | View Replies]

To: Ispy4u
If we hang LTC west, the terrorists are watching TV saying "look, we can kill their civilians and they have to treat us like civilians...lets keep fighting!"
127 posted on 12/09/2003 7:10:24 AM PST by milan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 123 | View Replies]

To: milan
I sure would hate to have to report the man that "saved my life". But I would.

Thanks for your wishes and I hate to sound like Ahnold, but I will be back.
128 posted on 12/09/2003 7:12:51 AM PST by Ispy4u
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 125 | View Replies]

To: milan
Some will, but they will be killed or captured.

But LTC West will get his retirement, he won't be hanged, and he and his lawyer didn't need to go to the media.

His dishonorable actions were small in my eyes when he fired his sidearm, but they have grown immense because of his efforts to save his retirement. If he quietly declined the offer to leave service and faced court martial he would have been dealt with fairly, he didn't trust the system and he has used the media to rally support, dishonorable is the only word I can think of for it.
129 posted on 12/09/2003 7:18:42 AM PST by Ispy4u
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: Ispy4u
The article that link points to agrees with my point of view MUCH more so than yours.

Read my posts again.
The punishment doesn't fit the situation, I can't call it a crime.

BTW, that article doesn't have any information about the article 32 other than to say that LTC West is awaiting the outcome.
If you don't have any hard information why are you pretending you do?

130 posted on 12/09/2003 7:19:38 AM PST by Just another Joe (FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 126 | View Replies]

To: Ispy4u
No, he was offered to leave without retirement, but he chose court martial, so it's his choice.

Some offer. He made the right choice, but never should've been put in that position.

Yes 20 years does not mean 19.999. Never has never will.

Can't argue with your math skills there. Which is why I believe he should've been disciplined and allowed to serve out the additional .001 without being forced to "choose" a court martial in order to protect the 19.999 years of service he gave to this country.

131 posted on 12/09/2003 7:20:15 AM PST by PBRSTREETGANG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies]

To: milan
" Regardless of what you think, he saved American lives. Who knows how many."

If you know what you claim to know, you should at least be able to give us a rough estimate.

132 posted on 12/09/2003 7:20:20 AM PST by cookcounty (Army vet, Army dad)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Calpernia
Jay Bookman, why don't you ask the widow Spann what she thinks of West's tactics.
133 posted on 12/09/2003 7:20:50 AM PST by RedBloodedAmerican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 119 | View Replies]

To: Just another Joe
so he took a few of his men to the interrogation area to see for himself, where he found the prisoner being questioned by two female officers. They told him the man was belligerent, and wasn't giving them any information. (Surprise, surprise. The idiocy of having women question male Arab prisoners is apparent to everyone except the army commanders.) West entered the room, sat across from the man, drew his pistol, and placed it in his lap. West told him he had come to either get information, or to kill him. The prisoner responded by smiling and saying, "I love you." The interrogation continued, and one of West's troops lost his temper and started slapping the man. West then had his men take the prisoner outside, where he again threatened the man, telling him that he would kill him on the count of five if he didn't tell what he knew. The prisoner refused, and West fired his pistol into the air.

This information is from the Art. 32 hearing. You said he wasn't in the room the facts are that he was.

134 posted on 12/09/2003 7:23:16 AM PST by Ispy4u
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 130 | View Replies]

To: Ispy4u
I'm not supporting LTC West in this, but I am a bit suspicious of the Atlanta J&C.

Isn't Cynthia Tucker the editor there? The Cynthia Tucker who hates with deep passion all African-Americans that disagree with herself? Maybe she fears a budding African-American politician who might not follow Plantation rules.

135 posted on 12/09/2003 7:26:44 AM PST by cookcounty (Army vet, Army dad)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: milan
I might very well have done what West did, but just as I break other laws on occasion, I know that there is a penalty for doing so. I didn't make the rules, but I was well aware of what they were.

Do you believe that each officer should do as he pleases, regardless of the UCMJ?

BTW you did not answer what the rules were that you were taught. If you're going to give us that "Army went PC" crap, tell us what rules you operated under. As for you being glad I got out, my Battalion commander had my wife and me to his home for dinner trying to get me to stay but I'm sure you are smarter than LTC Crandall was.

136 posted on 12/09/2003 7:26:50 AM PST by HoustonCurmudgeon (PEACE - Through Superior Firepower)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 120 | View Replies]

To: PBRSTREETGANG
Since his alleged crime occured prior to 20 and the plea bargain was made prior to 20 then if he wanted to keep his retirement his only choice was court martial.

Them's the breaks, no difference in my eyes between dishonorable service at 19.999 and dishonorable service at 18 should we wait 2 years for their retirement before plea bargain? 18 years is a lot of honorable service too.

That's one of the hard lessons of the military, when disciplin is done correctly, it's by god tough!
137 posted on 12/09/2003 7:27:24 AM PST by Ispy4u
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 131 | View Replies]

To: cookcounty
The AJC is probably as bad as the LA Times, but I still agree with the jist of the editorial.
138 posted on 12/09/2003 7:28:44 AM PST by Ispy4u
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 135 | View Replies]

To: Ispy4u
well, as a former 11b, you probably know what its like to be dirty, cold, exhausted and hungry. West, as an artillery officer, has being doing that for 20 years (putting up with privation) at low pay.

Everyone has an opinion. I respect yours, but i strongly disagree with you. You think its ok to court martial an officer who has served honorably for 19.9 years and take his pension for only discharging a sidearm to intimidate an enemy spy (the man was not in uniform and thus not protected by the Genveva convention as a combatant).

i could not disagree with you more. Punishment should be appropriate to the offense. In this case, the punishment should have been an a$$ chewing.

I've served in the 4th ID, the 8th ID and the 5th ID and i've commanded an infantry rifle company and a division HQ company. I know that the best leaders that i served under would have only given West a verbal reprimand and gone about the mission.

Regards,
139 posted on 12/09/2003 7:30:02 AM PST by OldCorps
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: Ispy4u
You said he wasn't in the room the facts are that he was.

No, I asked the question. I even put in writing a disclaimer.
And once again, "roughing up", or even, "and one of West's troops lost his temper and started slapping the man.", is now a life threatening beating?

The person was also examined by a doctor and the doctor found no evidence that the person was physically harmed in any lasting way.

His commanding officer didn't find anything wrong with the techniques. It was in a "rambling letter" that mentioned, in passing, something about what LTC West did that the PC lawyers decided they knew better than his commanding officer and his own staff.

140 posted on 12/09/2003 7:33:24 AM PST by Just another Joe (FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 134 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 281-283 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson