Cops accidentally kill 300 citizens annually

Well then you must be clean as a whistle or old as the hills... it is dangerous to your career to have any confrontation with the police... they can steal everything from you with a warrant, your future, your career, your hope.... I watch my step every step.... I even donate to the police after school program to get a police sticker on my car so I don't get tickets if I'm pulled over for... not wearing my seat belts.... talking on a cell phone.... eating a hamburger.... or reaching for a cassette.... oh, but I'm over exaggerating.

What does "as clean as a whistle mean?".

"but I'm over exaggerating"

No kidding....

No, I no the game and I'll game the system; you on the otherhand appear to have complete faith... if you have children or grandchildren, an do not warn them about the potential bias and bad behavior within law enforcement then they have a good chance of ending up in trouble.... It is like an STD.

"What's with all the anti-police feeling here?"

This is nothing new. I've been married to a LEO for thirteen years now and since I became a freeper, I have been on my hubby to retire after twenty years. I've told my son that he is not allowed to become a LEO and although that may seem unfair, I don't want him to be a target by the criminals and now the anti-police people.

I don't know if people are aware of this fact, but a high percentage of cops don't live five years past retirement. This just happened to an uncle of mine....he hadn't even been retired two years before dying of a heart attack.

no=know

Well said.

I think there is a definite place for non lethal weapons. For example the officers on Diallo could have begun with non lethal force. Half could have had live fire weapons and only fired if he didn't go down with NL.

Reemember that NL can and does kill on occasion. Seems a lot of times cops shoot bullets when they could shoot NL charges. They really should be given a better chance.

But the mainstay must remain lethal force. This serves as a real deterrent. Otherwise why not run. The worse that will happen is you will go to prison and you are going there anyway. Maybe this is why more big cities are not going nonlethal. The crook must wonder. "Will this be my last night on earth if I run?"

"Thanks for the peek into ideologue dementia."

LOL

Straight up answers:

1) "empty pipe": If you're using a double-action semi-automatic, you can carry with a bullet in the chamber - which means all you have to do to fire it is pull the trigger. This would be similar to most revolvers.

I am familiar with the concept of a bullet in the chamber. John Lott says that only 1 in 2000 gun pulls will you ever need to fire. We are having too many accidental killings from this policy to have a bullet in the chamber.

OR you can carry with NO bullet in the chamber, which means that before you pull the trigger, you have to "rack the slide" (pull back and release the thingie on the top of the pistol) to get a bullet into the chamber.

Answer: Two issues here. With a wheel gun you just pull the trigger twice to fire once. The world champion can draw and fire 8 shots from a wheel gun in 1.2 seconds. With a semi automatic you must rack.

2) "Shoot to kill": In my department we are taught "shoot to stop". BUT we are also taught to shoot to the center of mass - which, I suspect is likely to kill or to permanently disable.

Answer: In my self defense classes we shoot until we stop the threat.

As far as killing goes, I'd prefer to shot Mozambiques - two to the center of mass and one to the head. As far as "Stopping" goes, I'd like to research shooting to the pelvic area, which some claim is a guaranteed knockdown and NOT necesarilly a killing shot, or even a permanently disabling shot (though one is coming mighty close to Mr. Happy, I guess).

Answer: The firing ranges here do not allow the two shots to the mass and one to the head. I have some FBI tactical stuff you should read. The Miami shootout, wound ballistics.

As for keeping one's finger on the trigger, I don't know where that comes from. We are trained to keep the finger OFF the trigger unless you have decided to fire.

Answer: We train as well with the finger off the trigger as well. The problem is rookie and LEO’s who do not train regularly do not practice good technique. I see it all the time on the range.

As for looking and discovering that one's gun is cocked, we are trained (and I practice) to decock before holstering every time. Also, my duty holster won't work if my Sig P226 is cocked.

Answer:: This cop friend said his firearm was cocked while he sat at his desk. Therefore catching thie hammer on the chair is very likely.

My other duty gun is a S&W 686P and it's a double action revolver. It isn't cocked unless I cock it, and after a trigger job it's so smooth in DA that I don't ever cock it. (Well, okay, maybe at the range when I'm showing off, but I practice double action nearly all the time.)
As far as special souped up weapons are concerned, I have had trigger jobs on both my duty guns, but other than that they're stock guns. I don't know any cops that have souped up guns. I do know one department that has stock, double-action-only H&Ks, and I know of other departments that have "double action only" automatics.

Answer: In my experience, and listening to LEO's The larger metro forces are very standard. I have the privilege of meeting Richard Davis of Second Chance Vests and have all his videos. A large number of the small town cops had big guns, with big loads.

But I also wonder how much difference that makes. When I shoot in competitions (where I usually come in last in terms of speed, but do okay in accuracy) I don't even notice if I'm firing double action or single action. When the clock is running and the adrenaline is up, I'm all about sight picture and "squee-ee-eeze the trigger".
Yeah, some LEO's are dopes. Lots aren't. My guess is, on average, you get what you pay for.

Answer: I agree you get what you pay for.

And final word: I wish more of us knew how to act, especially how important it is to keep your hands visible and to avoid sudden movements, when firearms and adrenaline are in the same area.

Answer: Here is some rules that I practice preach, and share with my friends and those who think they know about firearms but don’t.

5 Rules of Conceal and Carry

"YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON IS FOR PROTECTION OF INNOCENT LIFE ONLY."

"KNOW EXACTLY WHEN YOU CAN USE YOUR WEAPON."

"IF YOU CAN RUN AWAY SAFELY- RUN, RUN RUN!"

"DISPLAY YOUR WEAPON, GO TO JAIL."

"DON'T LET YOUR EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF YOU."

Detail

5 Rules of Conceal and Carry (like a pistol)

1. YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON IS FOR PROTECTION OF INNOCENT LIFE ONLY.

Draw it solely in preparation to protect yourself or an innocent third party from the wrongful and criminal activities of another.

2. KNOW EXACTLY WHEN YOU CAN USE YOUR WEAPON.

The criminal adversary must have or reasonably appear to have:

A. The ABILITY to inflict serious bodily injury. He is armed or reasonably appears to be armed.

B. The OPPORTUNITY to inflict serious bodily harm. He is positioned to harm you with his weapon, and,

C. His INTENT (hostile actions or words) indicates that he means to place you in jeopardy - to do you serious or fatal physical harm.

When all three of these "attack potential" elements are in place simultaneously, then you are facing a reasonably perceived deadly threat that justifies an emergency deadly force response. Note that these conditions may be defined differently in certain circumstances. For example, a small woman may be justified in using deadly force with a handgun against a much stronger male who is unarmed and attempting to rape or kill her. For a male vs. male encounter the defendant probably would not be justified unless possibly if he was physically handicapped, elderly, etc. This is known as disparity of force.

3. IF YOU CAN RUN AWAY SAFELY- RUN, RUN, RUN!

Just because you are armed doesn't necessarily mean that you must confront a bad guy at gunpoint. Develop your situation awareness skills so that you can be alert to detect and avoid trouble as much as possible. Keep in mind that if you successfully evade a potential confrontation, the single negative consequence involved might only be your bruised ego, which should heal quickly with mature rationalization. But if you force a confrontation, and it escalates into deadly force, you risk the possibility of death or serious injury to yourself and any friends, family members, or innocent bystanders that may be present.

Also you face the possibility of criminal liability and/or financial ruin from a civil lawsuit as a result of your actions. Flee if you can - fight only as a last resort.

Naturally, there are circumstances in which you may be able to flee but it would not be in your best interest or judgment to do so. For example, a situation that you could easily flee from when alone may be difficult to safely avoid if your family was with you. Also it may be a judgment/ethics call on whether or not to fight or flee based on what is happening to potential victims around you.

For example, a gunman may be threatening the life of someone else and not even notice you. If you leave the scene, and go call 911 and just wait for the police to show up, you may have to deal with guilt and emotional issues that result if the gunman kills someone. In contrast, if you intervene, then you may risk your own life. Remember that self-preservation, and keeping your loved ones safe should be your first priorities. Always remember to stay calm and quickly analyze the situation at hand. Use good judgment on how you will react to any given circumstance.

4. DISPLAY YOUR WEAPON, GO TO JAIL.

You should expect to be arrested by police at gunpoint, and be charged with a crime anytime your concealed handgun is seen by another citizen in public, regardless of how unintentional, innocent, or justified the situation might seem.

Choose a method of carry that reliably keeps your gun hidden from public view at all times. You have no control over how a stranger will react to seeing (or learning about) your concealed weapon. He of she might become alarmed and report you as a "man or woman with a gun". Depending on his or her feelings about firearms, this person might maliciously embellish their story in an attempt to have your gun seized by police or in order to get you arrested. Even though your jacket only blew open for a moment, giving a brief glimpse of your gun, that person may tell the police that you were waving it around like a homicidal maniac. An alarmed citizen who reports a "man or woman with a gun" is going to be a lot more credible to police than you are when you are stopped because you match the "suspect's" description and you are found to have a concealed handgun in your possession. Before you deliberately expose your gun in public, ask yourself "is this worth going to jail for?" The only time this question should warrant a "yes" response is when an adversary has at least both the ABILITY and INTENT and is actively seeking the OPPORTUNITY to do you great harm.

Also, remember that proper concealment of a weapon is more than just covering it up so that it is not physically visible. You want to remove as much as possible any signs that you are armed. For example, you would not wear a tight T-shirt that shows the lines of your gun printing through it, especially if that T-shirt has a firearm related logo or statement on it. Also, a black nylon fanny-pack or a photographer's vest may, in certain areas or in certain modes of dress tell any half-educated person that you are packing a gun. It is also not usually a very good idea to let too many people know that you carry a gun. This fact should be limited to your immediate family and select friends who are "gun people" also. Please, for your sake and the sake of others around you - be discreet!

5. DON'T LET YOUR EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF YOU.

When you are armed, you must realize that you just lost your right to initiate ANY type of confrontation that could possibly escalate into a violent encounter. You must now have a very mellow attitude on life and your fellow mankind.

You just lost the right to flip off the motorist who just cut you off in traffic. You have to ignore the scumbag who just "wolf-whistled" at your wife/girlfriend. If someone wants to pick a fight with you, you lost the right to respond in any way other than a kind, friendly manner while walking away. As an armed person you must be more likely and willing to avoid trouble that an unarmed person would be. You have the legal and moral obligation of de-escalating any situation that you are presented with unless you are faced by someone displaying all three of the "attack potential" elements. Carrying a loaded firearm among your fellow citizens is an awesome responsibility that is not to be taken lightly.

Remember, once you strap on your weapon, you must carry with it a great measure of discretion and judgment, along with an easy-going attitude.

Altho the title and first sentence speak of innocent people being "accidentally" killed by police, the vast majority of the examples given are not accidental in the slightest. The killing might be called "unjustified" or "precipitous" or even "arbitrary" .... but not accidental. When the cops aimed and shot at someone, when they beat someone to death, they intended to kill him or at least bring him near to death, there wasn't anything "accidental" about it.

FRY MUMIA

Be comforted: 97% of the guys in police uniform are 'the good ones'. Three percent give the rest a bad rap.

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3% of 4,500,000 Concealed Carry Weapon would equal 135,000 bad guys. Is this acceptable. See the issue with honest citizens carrying CCW.

3% of 80,000,000 firearms owners would be 2,400,000 million bad american citziens with firearms. Is this acceptable?/

One expects these anti-cop ideologues to any minute start chanting: "Free Mumia Abu-Jamal!"

Not wearing my seat belts, talking on cell phones, eating a hamburger, or reaching for a cassette.

Excuse me, but the cops didn't make these laws. You want to complain and change the laws, then go buy a few politicians who will create laws that will suit you.

Altho the title and first sentence speak of innocent people being "accidentally" killed by police, the vast majority of the examples given are not accidental in the slightest. The killing might be called "unjustified" or "precipitous" or even "arbitrary" .... but not accidental. When the cops aimed and shot at someone, when they beat someone to death, they intended to kill him or at least bring him near to death, there wasn't anything "accidental" about it.

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Are you saying these accidental killings are murder.

The black Chicago woman cop who accidently shot an black women who had a cell phone in her hand is still dead.

That's right, it's just a job.... kinda like a bank foreclosing on a farm.

I'm not convinced the 300 spoken of are all that innocent... Details in each case would be needed for me to be the least bit convinced the accuastion comes close to reality.

"CCW are not involved in over 40,000,000 contacts with potential criminals per year."

Thank you....I'm not sure anyone is aware of this, but if a cop kills someone in the line of duty, it is automatic that they appear in front of a grand jury.

... kinda like a bank foreclosing on a farm.

Now you're anti-property rights? Free Mumia Abu-Jamal!

I'm not convinced the 300 spoken of are all that innocent... Details in each case would be needed for me to be the least bit convinced the accuastion comes close to reality.

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YEP this is someone else judgement. I would want to see the 300 cases as well. But what is interesting I have been working firearms issues for about five years now and have seen this 300 number quote a number of times. At one time I had the FBI source, still looking for a this source.

You know , if the NYPD just wanted Diabblo dead , would it have taken 41 bullets?

Send me your email off line and I will send you my firearms fact book 900k file in adobe.