3 Members Of Ft. Lewis Stryker Brigade Killed In Iraq

KOMO1000 News ^ | 12/08/03 | KOMO Staff

[Vetvoice]

The Army knew from its own testing that they would roll over on any angle over 30 degrees. General Shinseki simply said that was ok!

[Vetvoice]

The silly "slat armor" RPG deflector added 5,200 pounds to an already top heavy vehicle. In its brand new, 40,000 pound configuration the Army found that they would roll over at any angle over 30 degrees. With the added 5,200 pounds ABOVE the axles, I wouldn't even hazard a guess at what small angle it would take to roll them over now.

[archy]

Not a good start for the Stryker Brigade.

Damned unfortunate, but this would have happened to any vehicle happening along at that time.

Any vehicle might have collapsed a bank, but not all would have rolled over. And we don't yet know whether those who died were crewmen partially outside hatches, or those inside kiled when gear stored inside shifted- or even drownings. We know that two vehicles were involved and both went over, and that three died, maybe in the same vehicle, maybe some of each. And others were undoubtedly seriously injured as well.

Not exactly a roaring startoff for the Stryker, though that wasn't expected by many here. But not yet a cause for condemnation, either.

[TexKat]

I am not ex-military, so can someone explain to me why there are so many "accidental" deaths [of soldiers] in Iraq (and presumably other wars)?

I am not a military nor ex-military person either Steve_Seattle. However I am aware of quite a few casulties and accidentes even without war, just in training. We are just not so tuned in to them as we are here. Probably not all home accidents are reported.

[archy]

I am not ex-military, so can someone explain to me why there are so many "accidental" deaths [of soldiers] in Iraq (and presumably other wars)? Is it because in war the military is doing a lot of dangerous things that aren't technically combat-related? Is it poor training? Carelessness? As Donahue used to say, "Can somebody help me with this?"

We've lost about 200 killed by enemy fire and about 100 killed not as a result of hostile action since President Bush declared the war concluded and the occupational phase beginning. I recall one of the divisions I was with in Vietnam as having a ratio of closer to 3:1 over a years period, but that was almost all regular army troops, though including conscripts, and they had a whole year's statistics to consider- the whole data for this year isn't in yet.

One factor is that the vehicles generally carry more- we moved 6 0r 8 in a Huey helicopter, and about the same number, 5 or 6 in an M113 personnel carrier most of the time, while our jeeps carried 3 or 4.

The Blackhawks can carry a full 11-man squad, as can the Stryker wheeled armored cars, nearly doubling the casualty numbers when either vehicle is lost, whether to enemy action or an accident. And thew Humvee can easily be carrying twice what a jeep did, and so forth.

It's not quite a comparison of apples and oranges. But it's like a comparison of different varieties of apples, or Florida tangerines versus California Oranges.

-archy-/-

[archy]

I don't know if I should even tell her I just read this.

If you do, you can pray for those who were lost together, whether they're those you knew or not. And the weight of your prayers will be added to those of mine, and many, many others.

They're all needed right now.

-archy-/-

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Three killed, one injured in Stryker accident in Iraq

MIKE GILBERT; The News Tribune

NEAR DULUIYAH, IRAQ -- Three Stryker Brigade soldiers from Fort Lewis were killed Monday evening when two Stryker vehicles plunged from a collapsed embankment and landed upside down in an irrigation canal near the Iraqi town of Duluiyah.

The accident occurred about 5:30 p.m. (6:30 a.m. Monday PST) as infantrymen were just beginning nighttime patrols in the area.

The names of the deceased are being withheld pending notification of their families.

A fourth soldier was revived after he was pulled from one of the vehicles. He was evacuated by air to an Army hospital at the nearby city of Balad. Information about the extent of his injuries was unavailable at presstime Monday.

It was the first fatal accident involving a Stryker since the vehicle was introduced into the Army 18 months ago, and the first deaths in the 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division since it deployed from Fort Lewis in mid November. It comes in just the first week of the brigade's operations in Iraq.

"An embankment on a road collapsed, causing two Stryker infantry carrier vehicles to roll over into a canal," the brigade said in a statement. "The accident was not a result of hostile action. It is unknown whether recent heavy rainfall contributed to the cause of the accident.

"The cause is under investigation.Units who have been operating in this area the past several months had cautioned Stryker leaders that vehicle rollovers posed a serious risk. They said everything from M-1 Abrams tanks to Humvees have rolled on the narrow, unimproved tracks that run through this mostly rural and suburban area along the Tigris River.

After the accident, only the wheels of the flipped, eight-foot-tall vehicles could be seen above the waterline of the canal.

Soldiers worked throughout the predawn hours today to pull the vehicles from the canal and return them to the brigade's forward operating base.

It was unclear at presstime whether the dead soldiers were riding in the same Stryker. It was also unclear whether they died from drowning or from injuries sustained in the rollover.

Meanwhile, the brigade's commanders used tactical radio to tell other soldiers to push on and focus on their mission. Infantrymen have been conducting patrols, traffic checkpoints and other operations in the area.

"We take the death or injury of any soldier very seriously and our thoughts and prayers are with the families of these soldiers," according to the brigade statement. In addition to hundreds of traditional Army vehicles, the 5,000-soldier brigade is pioneering 309 first-generation Strykers. At $2 million apiece, they feature cutting-edge surveillance and communications gear, move on wheels instead of treads and are designed to deliver infantry troops quickly. They also are covered with a cage-like "slat armor" to protect them from rocket-propelled grenade attacks

Michael Gilbert: mjgilbert41@yahoo.com

Staff writer Michael Gilbert is an embedded journalist with the 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, the Army's first Stryker brigade. He was with an infantry company doing field operations at the time of Monday's fatal accident. (Published 8:57PM, December 8th, 2003)

[Proud Legions]

Exactly. The truth is a large number of soldiers die in accidents here in the states...mostly from automobile accidents. Not saying we should not try and eliminate accidents, but some number of soldiers over there would have died in accidents back home.

Large vehicles, and the poor infrastructure there, and the limited driving experience of many soldiers (remember, drivers are some of our youngest and newest soldier---my battalion's averaged less than 20 years old), all lend themselves to accidents.

[archy]

and I'll just throw this one in since I have been looking at it off and on today. It kind of gives one a little hope for the future of some of the Iraqi children.

And someday, when those kids are a little older, and maybe understand a little more, they'll make a friend who's a long way from his home....

[PokeyBS]

Sadly, my family is one of those families praying for the phone not to ring today. My cousin, Michael is in this unit. He'll be 21 next week, and although I'm extremely proud of him for serving his country, I'm still very scared for him.

I have been lucky enough the last few days to find this site, where there seems to be so many who are kind enough to share thier experiences. I've learned a lot.

I'll be praying for the soldiers and thier families.

Anita

[Proud Legions]

Me thinks many on this thread are so against the Stryker that they jump to too many conclusions too quickily. It may not be the vehicle we want in the long run. But then again, maybe many vehicles would have turned over at these angles.

At what angle will a Bradley flip?

Also, most of the 5200 extra pounds are very low on this vehicle--just because they are at or just above the axil does not mean it makes it tip easier. If it did, ever car and truck on the highway would flip over at the first rush of wind. The weight has to be above the center of gravity to make it unstable, not just above the axil, does it not?

[Travis McGee]

The Stryker is notoriously unstable. It has been restricted to improved road surfaces due to it's propensity to roll. My favorite from the article: "Heavy rainfall in the area might have been a cause, but the Army is still investigating." They should investigate the fact that the whistle blowers during it's development were silenced andf the program shoved forward regardless of it's obvious problems. 18 posted on 12/08/2003 7:32:26 PM PST by Darksheare

[Travis McGee]

You're asking me about tanks and canals? Hell, all I know is whether they support a pair of jungle boots or not when you jump off the front of a boat.

[Travis McGee]

God Bless your family and your cousin Michael, out doing his nation proud.

[Dosa26]

Thank you for your service.

Also, most of the 5200 extra pounds are very low on this vehicle--just because they are at or just above the axil does not mean it makes it tip easier. If it did, ever car and truck on the highway would flip over at the first rush of wind. The weight has to be above the center of gravity to make it unstable, not just above the axil, does it not?

Not exactly, the center of gravity must be beyond the operational horizontal plane to tip a vehicle if I remember physics 101 correctly.

[archy]

You're asking me about tanks and canals? Hell, all I know is whether they support a pair of jungle boots or not when you jump off the front of a boat.

Remind me to not ask a SEAL about beachhead surveys the next time I'm planning an amphibious landing. Who does that sort of thing, UDT? Recon Marines? I figured it'd be a fairly common enough SEAL tasking...

-archy-/-

[Squantos]

http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx

Breaks down the specifics for ya.......Stay Safe !

[Travis McGee]

Oh, we did it and I suppose we still do it. But it's more on the lines of "fill some jars with sand and take it back to an expert."

[archy]

Oh, we did it and I suppose we still do it. But it's more on the lines of "fill some jars with sand and take it back to an expert."

That'll work. Go fill some jars with sand and bring them back for an expert to analyze.

Yep. Looks like sand. Tastes like sand. It's sand. Keep the Strykers off it, and on the pavement.

[sbct for freedom]

Sadly, I am with you on not wanting the phone to ring, I have a son Christopher who is in the SBCT. Like you I am extremely proud of him and scared. I feel bad because even if my phone does not ring, 3 phones will. Freedom is not cheap when you have to lose a love one. Pray for all our soldiers and don't forget people like Mile Gilbert See#47 who risk their life to inform all of us at home.