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His 15 minutes of fame long gone, Elian celebrates another birthday
Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^
| 12/07/03
| Scott Holleran
Posted on 12/07/2003 3:32:47 PM PST by Holly_P
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To: pcx99
A book recommendation for you:
To: Ahban
Lest we forget, on Easter Sunday, Bill Clinton, the now disgraced, impeached ex-President, sent armed goons in the dead of night to remove the terrified child from his loving family and deliver him to the merciless tyrant Castro.
The "loving familly" that refused court orders to return the child and met every technical definition of "kidnap". They he'd the child for political reasons where they had no rights to hold the child having lost in the courts.
The travesty is that this "loving familly" wasn't prosecuted for kidnap and child endangerment by forcing the police to raid their home in such a manner to enforce court orders on the matter.
42
posted on
12/07/2003 4:25:30 PM PST
by
pcx99
To: mercy
You and yours sent that kid back to hell and you will pay. This nation will pay..... IS paying.
You've outdone yourself in foolish hyperbole with this nonsense!
43
posted on
12/07/2003 4:26:24 PM PST
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
To: pcx99
Do you recognise Fidel as Elian's parent?
44
posted on
12/07/2003 4:26:57 PM PST
by
crude77
To: Holly_P
Fathers don't have parental rights. They are at best sperm donors.
45
posted on
12/07/2003 4:26:58 PM PST
by
Doe Eyes
To: MitchellC
It may be that Elian will be so indoctrinated by Fidel that by adulthood he'll be ready to be the next undemocratic dictator in Cuba, who's to say?
Exactly. None of us can say the future so we just muddle through as we've always done and preserve the integrity of the familly and trust the boy's father will give Elian a good enough start that he'll be able to thrive in whatever role life hands him. Just as we do things here ;)
46
posted on
12/07/2003 4:27:55 PM PST
by
pcx99
To: pcx99
Yres, we will try one last time: PARENTAL RIGHTS DO NOT EXIST IN CUBA. The father has NO RIGHTS IN CUBA. He was in the US laboring under the long cruel thumb of Fidel Castro. That poor guy would have been condemning his relatives back in communist Cuba if he had swayed from the proscribed. You keep writing about this like there is some sort of moral equivalence between the USA and communist Cuba. Newsflash: There isn't! That boy is doomed to live under communism. That is shameful and pathetic.
47
posted on
12/07/2003 4:30:28 PM PST
by
whereasandsoforth
(tagged for migratory purposes only)
To: pcx99
America did not lose its way. American's did what American's have always done: support strong familly values. When the boy's father wanted his son back that was it, case closed. Familly won out over politics and government, just as it always has and as we hope it always will.
You know as much about the situation as you know how to spell 'family'.
48
posted on
12/07/2003 4:32:24 PM PST
by
aruanan
To: whereasandsoforth
Yres, we will try one last time: PARENTAL RIGHTS DO NOT EXIST IN CUBA. The father has NO RIGHTS IN CUBA. He was in the US laboring under the long cruel thumb of Fidel Castro. That poor guy would have been condemning his relatives back in communist Cuba if he had swayed from the proscribed. You keep writing about this like there is some sort of moral equivalence between the USA and communist Cuba. Newsflash: There isn't! That boy is doomed to live under communism. That is shameful and pathetic.
But parental rights
DO exist in the United States and this dispute was carried out on US soil and the US made the right decision. If the US had made any other decision we'd have been no better than cuba. If the father had made any indication he wanted to stay or wanted Elian to stay the US government would have bent over backwards to help him with the full support of its citizens. He didn't and whether we like it or not the US stood by its principles that the rights of the father are superior to the rights of the state and the US cuban community.
Case closed.
49
posted on
12/07/2003 4:33:27 PM PST
by
pcx99
To: Holly_P
this kid kept Gore out of the white house, Bush won florida because of Elian, I am sure it tossed 538 votes (legal ones) to Bush.
To: pcx99
Excuse me but are you prepared to argue that your brothers and sister's in-laws can come take your child because you're a republican and they're democrates?
The ability of the GOP and Democratic parties to exist is due to the nature of this nation, so no, they would have no justification for doing something like that. This is a freedom vs. no freedom issue, something entirely beyond quibbles and disputes between two parties that exist in freedom. To equate it to such displays a profound ignorance.
Furthermore, parental rights do not and have never superceded all other rights; parents have never had such a scope of control over their children that they can place them in harm's way and have justification for doing such a thing. Are you next going to argue that all abused children should be returned to their parents?
To: Holly_P
the world has forgotten Elian Not me!
ML/NJ
52
posted on
12/07/2003 4:38:37 PM PST
by
ml/nj
To: pcx99
Case closed, indeed. It's pointless to argue this. I am getting the same "logic" I got back then. I was then conversing with a devout socialist female of the species.
53
posted on
12/07/2003 4:39:47 PM PST
by
whereasandsoforth
(tagged for migratory purposes only)
To: pcx99
A commie woulda kept the child even though the child's father was doing everything in his power to get his son back.
Oh, good grief. Do a little research, please.
54
posted on
12/07/2003 4:41:37 PM PST
by
AnnaZ
(::: RADIOFR :: Hi-Fi FReepin' 24/7 ::: http://www.theotherradionetwork.com/pgs/rfr_schedule.htm :::)
To: pcx99
his father asserted parental rights You are aware, are you not, that claims made under duress are not generally recognized by our courts? Elian's father was clearly a party to his escape based upon his, "Are they there yet?" call to his relatives. Sometime after that he apparently "changed his mind," and you cannot understand what happened.
Shame!
ML/NJ
55
posted on
12/07/2003 4:45:09 PM PST
by
ml/nj
To: pcx99
He had both the second he set foot on US soil.
He NEVER set foot on US soil. Again, do some research, please.
56
posted on
12/07/2003 4:48:06 PM PST
by
AnnaZ
(::: RADIOFR :: Hi-Fi FReepin' 24/7 ::: http://www.theotherradionetwork.com/pgs/rfr_schedule.htm :::)
To: MitchellC
This is a freedom vs. no freedom issue
No this is a family vs. politics issue.
Furthermore, parental rights do not and have never superceded all other rights; parents have never had such a scope of control over their children that they can place them in harm's way and have justification for doing such a thing. Are you next going to argue that all abused children should be returned to their parents?
There was never a history of abuse with Elian. The only reason people had their panties in a wad over him was because of politics. There was not a single shred of evidence that showed Elian was the victim of abuse, and I guarantee you few children ever had such a microscope placed on them with the goal of proving that thesis.
Once abuse is ruled out, we're back to the democrat vs. republican analogy. And no mater how you try to twist and turn, that's exactly what Elian was all about -- politics, and the US quite rightly rejected the notion that a child can be removed from his father over something as trivial as politics.
57
posted on
12/07/2003 4:48:36 PM PST
by
pcx99
To: Doe Eyes
Fathers don't have parental rights. They are at best sperm donors. Hey Doe Eyes!
I think you belong on a Lesbian board. Fathers don't have enough parental rights.
ML/NJ
58
posted on
12/07/2003 4:52:50 PM PST
by
ml/nj
To: pcx99
If the father had made any indication he wanted to stay or wanted Elian to stay the US government would have bent over backwards to help him with the full support of its citizens.And Elian's family in Cuba would have, at best, rotted away in hellholes. If Castro dies and Cuba is liberated while Elian's father is still alive, I think he may have strong words for folks who took your position.
To: AnnaZ
60
posted on
12/07/2003 4:57:40 PM PST
by
pcx99
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