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NASA Relies On Thrusters To Steer Space Station After Malfunction
AP via CNN ^ | December 6, 2003 | AP

Posted on 12/06/2003 9:14:26 AM PST by John W

Edited on 04/29/2004 2:03:32 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

CAPE CANAVERAL, Florida (AP) -- NASA is relying on Russian-made thrusters to steer the international space station following a new malfunction with the U.S. motion-control system, officials said Friday.

Flight controllers detected spikes in current and vibration in one of the station's three operating gyroscopes on November 8. Last week, when the gyroscopes were used again to shift the position of the orbiting outpost, all three worked.


(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: nasa; spacestation
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To: XBob; Physicist; RadioAstronomer
From good ol' "Bob": 126 - Good talk. Glad you finally came down from your ivory tower. Perhaps youall won't be so 'blind sided' if youall actually talk to 'real people' next time. The hollywood leftists are beginning to find that out too, that their salaries are paid by the 'cattle' who pay to see their movies, voluntarily. And they don't have to 'volunteer'.

Ah yes, now I recall why I don't even bother visiting these threads anymore...insults from the intellectually challenged thrown about at anyone secretly envied...especially physicists and engineers who take time out of their very busy days to answer you.

Emily Post update: A simple "thank you" would have sufficed.

161 posted on 12/13/2003 10:28:03 PM PST by Aracelis (Elitist? Why yes, thank you for noticing!)
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To: Piltdown_Woman
161 - Well well well, speaking of envious, elitist, academic frauds, pretending. You should go back to making love to your non-existent man.

My childhood friends, neighbors, and girl friends fathers put those guys you are so envious of, on the moon, as we children watched out from our front doors or on the beach.

And a few years later, my brother, the NASA engineer, and I helped get their kids (our friends and neighbors) into earth orbit on the shuttle.

Why should we be envious, like you.

I am embarrased and perturbed that we haven't equaled our parent's accomplishments in space.

Waste youall's time - that's a laugh, and that's why you may never get us to fund your projects again.

Have you ever thought about trying out for the Dixie Chicks? You should fit right in.
162 posted on 12/13/2003 11:36:13 PM PST by XBob
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To: Piltdown_Woman
You asked - "When are we going back???"

With your attitude, I guarantee it won't be any time soon, if ever.

Why don't you learn Chinese.

163 posted on 12/13/2003 11:44:50 PM PST by XBob
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Some-geeks-still-retain-their-people-skills PLACEMARKER.
164 posted on 12/14/2003 2:05:05 AM PST by jennyp (http://crevo.bestmessageboard.com)
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To: RightWhale; Right Wing Professor; PatrickHenry
Does the sea metaphor refer to a wave-like character of the interactions of constituents of the resultant particle?

No...but I like the notion!

Let's talk about semiconductors for a moment. Electrons in the solid each have their own energy level. Only a finite number of the electrons are allowed to share the same energy level because of the Pauli exclusion principle. So, starting at a certain ground state, each electron in the solid is assigned an energy. Once the ground state is full, no more electrons can have that low an energy. The next electron goes into the next higher energy state, and so on. This is called the valence band.

Once you get to a certain energy, you reach a band--a range of energies--where no electrons are permitted. This is called the bandgap.

Above the bandgap, there is another range of allowed energy levels. In these energy levels, the electrons are more or less free to travel throughout the solid. This is the conduction band. With enough energy (the bandgap energy), you can kick an electron from the valence band into the conduction band, which will create two charge carriers that flow as current. Two charge carriers? Yes: the electron in the conduction band, and the empty state (or "hole") that you left in the valence band when you removed the electron.

Now, here's the trick: you can think of the vacuum in the same way, except that there is no ground state for the valence band. The filled states--virtual particles--go all the way down. This bottomless valence band is known as the Dirac Sea.

There is a bandgap, too. For electrons, it's 1.022 MeV. That's the amount of energy it takes to create an electron-positron pair. What you're doing is kicking a virtual electron from the valence band (Dirac Sea) into the conduction band (a free electron). And the hole in the Dirac Sea? Why, that's the positron.

Each "flavor" of (fermionic) particle has its own Dirac Sea, with its own bandgap width.

And now I can give a partial answer to RWP and PH. Picture a quark tooling along until it passes through a proton. The proton is a cloud of real and virtual particles, as I said before. The faster the quark is going, the more energy it has with respect to the constituent particles of the proton. The more energy it has, the more particles in the Dirac Sea are available to be knocked into the conduction band (i.e., realized).

That's a partial answer, because the incoming quark can also "hit" gluons, and these, being massless have no "bandgap width", but nevertheless, the faster the incoming quark is going, the more gluons it "sees", too. (Not only that, but the whole band model doesn't apply to bosons such as gluons, because the Pauli Exclusion Principle only applies to fermions.) The geek answer is that virtual gluons are typically "off shell"...but I don't feel like writing another essay right now!

165 posted on 12/14/2003 5:27:48 AM PST by Physicist
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To: XBob
to export all our jobs and import all our workers

An economist as well as a physicist!

166 posted on 12/14/2003 5:30:58 AM PST by Physicist
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To: Virginia-American
*LOL!*
167 posted on 12/14/2003 6:26:38 AM PST by Darksheare (For the crimes of Heresy of thought, Heresy of word, and Heresy of deed, this tagline shall burn!)
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To: XBob; Heartlander; Physicist; RadioAstronomer; Alamo-Girl; Phaedrus; Virginia-American
XBob, here's something on biophotons I posted here recently, including an excerpt from Lynne McTaggert's The Field(2003):

In Chapter Three of The Force, McTaggert adduces the work of Fritz-Albert Popp, a theoretical biophysicist at the University of Marburg, Germany. Popp is well-known for his state-of-the-art research into cancer, among other things.

For present purposes, I just want to get down to the nitty-gritty of certain passages in this work. Please do read the book if you want all the preliminary details.

To be brief, suffice it to say that Popp eventually conjectured that the mechanism of cancer in biological systems proceeded from cancer’s ability to neutralize the “photo-repair mechanism” at the cellular level of the cancer-invaded organism. In other words, there are photons capable of work in the organic body, and cancer interferes with and finally overcomes their ability to effect necessary cellular repairs. Popp conducted many successful experiments tending to confirm this active photon-as-maintainer-of-living-systems hypothesis. But still, the results were not dispositive. Fast-forward to the relevant passages:

* * * * * *

A particularly gifted student [of Popp’s] talked him into trying an experiment. It is well known that when you apply a chemical called ethidium bromide to samples of DNA, the chemical squeezes itself into the middle of the base pairs of the double helix and causes it to unwind. The student suggested that, after applying the chemical, he and Popp try measuring the light coming off the sample. Pop discovered that the more he increased the concentration of the chemical, the more the DNA unwound, but also stronger the intensity of light. The less he put in, the lower the light emission. He also found that DNA was capable of sending out a large range of frequencies and that some frequencies seemed linked to certain functions. If DNA were storing the light, it would naturally emit more light once it was unwound.

These and other studies demonstrated to Popp that one of the most essential stores of light and sources of biophoton emissions was DNA. DNA must be like a master tuning fork in the body. It would strike a particular frequency and certain other molecules would follow. It was altogether possible, he realized, that he might have stumbled upon the missing link in current DNA theory that could account for perhaps the greatest miracle of all in human biology: the means by which a single cell turns into a fully-formed human being.

One of the greatest mysteries of biology is how we and every other living thing take geometric shape. Modern scientists mostly understand how we have blue eyes or grow to six foot one, and even how cells divide. What is far more elusive is the manner by which these cells know exactly where to place themselves in each stage of the building process, so that an arm becomes and arm rather than a leg, as well as the very mechanism which gets these cells to organize and assemble themselves together into something resembling a three-dimensional human form.

The usual scientific explanation has to do with the chemical interactions between molecules and DNA, the coiled double helix of genetic code that holds a blueprint [information!] of the body’s protein and amino acids. Each DNA helix or chromosome – and the identical twenty-six pairs exist in every one of the thousand million million cells in your body – contains a long chain of nucleotides, or bases, of four different components (shortened to ATCG) arranged in a unique order in every human body. The most favored idea is that there exists a genetic ‘program’ of genes operating collectively to determined shape, or, in the view of neo-Darwinists such as Richard Dawkins [and don’t forget Steven Pinker here], that ruthless genes, like Chicago thugs, have powers to create form and that we are ‘survival machines’ – robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules known as genes.

This theory promotes DNA as the Renaissance man of the human body – architect, master builder and central engine room – whose tool for all this amazing activity is a handful of the chemicals which make proteins. The modern scientific view is that DNA somehow manages to build the body and spearhead all its dynamic activities just by selectively turning off and on certain segments, or genes, whose nucleotides, or genetic instructions, select certain RNA molecules, which in turn select from a large alphabet of amino acids the genetic ‘words’ which create specific proteins. These proteins supposedly are able to build the body and to switch on and off all the chemical processes inside the cell which ultimately control the running of the body.

Undoubtedly proteins do play a major role in bodily function. Where the Darwinists fall short is explaining exactly how DNA knows when to orchestrate this and also how these chemicals, all blindly bumping into each other, can operate more or less simultaneously. Each cell undergoes, on average, some 100,000 chemical reactions per second – a process that repeats itself simultaneously across every cell in the body. At any given second, billions of chemical reactions of one sort or another occur. Timing must be exquisite, for if any one of the individual chemical processes in all the millions of cells of the body is off by a fraction, humans would blow themselves up in a matter of seconds. But what the rank and file among geneticists have not addressed is that if DNA is the control room, what is the feedback mechanism which enables it to synchronize the activities of individual genes and cells to carry out systems in unison? [emphasis added] What is the chemical or genetic process that tells certain cells to grow into a hand and not a foot? And which cell processes happen at which time?

If all these genes are working together, like some unimaginably big orchestra, who or what is the conductor? And if all these processes are due to simple chemical collision between molecules, how can it work anywhere near rapidly enough to account for the coherent behaviours that live beings exhibit every minute of their lives?

* * * * * * *

Whatever we might think of this, the PRC certainly takes it seriously.

168 posted on 12/14/2003 6:56:08 AM PST by betty boop (God used beautiful mathematics in creating the world. -- Paul Dirac)
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To: Physicist
Thank you.
169 posted on 12/14/2003 8:04:58 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: XBob
Why should physicists be exempt?

It's hard to fake an atomic bomb.

170 posted on 12/14/2003 12:20:10 PM PST by RightWhale (Close your tag lines)
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To: Physicist
166- "to export all our jobs and import all our workers
An economist as well as a physicist!"

Well, well, not really, but sort of

Physics is perhaps my weakest subject, but as a 'generalist', I will match my ability/knowledge/Mensa scores and ability to be conversant on most subjects, with anyone in the world. My knowledge is very broad - yours is very deep.

So, back to the point -

You better believe we 'pond scum' (as pseudo-woman would call us) need to know something about economics.

We, as a society, need to know how to pay for luxuries, such as physicists. As I said before, the world was flat, until the Queen sold her jewels (which were paid for by the ignorant peasants plowing their fields behind their donkeys).

Physicists are luxuries. We did without physicists for thousands of years.

And, as I sit here writing this, I am watching women's figure skating on TV - wow - sex and beauty and music - all together, what a wonderful thing. Why should I argue with 'physicists', when I can enjoy 'figurists'. Let me spend my limited luxury money on female figure skating, what greater art can there be?

And then I think a bit more, about our discussion here, and I think - wow - I am watching this luxury on TV. And, without physicists, I wouldn't have a TV on which to watch such beauty. So, until I can afford a trip to Moscow to watch these beautiful girls perform, live, I better see to it that the physicists get a bit of my money to continue making future 'TV's'.

So, remember Physicist, who your competetion is, for our (pond scum) money - figure skaters (or football games and cheerleaders as the case may be).

And I guess, at Pseudo-woman's insistence, I should thank you more politely, for trying to explain some physics to us non-physicist pond scum.

And remember your competetion - figure skaters !!

Do you think putting on short skirts or shorty white lab coats, would make youall any more appealing? LOL



171 posted on 12/14/2003 12:35:17 PM PST by XBob
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To: betty boop
168 - Miss Betty - thanks much for the interesting info, and hopefully the science will lead to some real breakthroughs.

As a diabetic, I have become very aware of just how complex and great the human body is, at coordinating/regulating all the body processes (mine don't work right, and I have to manually regulate numbers of them).

In fact, I have had to nearly get a degree in organic chemistry to understand just how little we know about how the body (and cellular respiration) works. It was also interesting to learn that many university studies have been completed, and in which the experimenters had no real idea of what their findings meant, while to some of us, the meanings were obvious.

There is such a thing as getting too close to your problem.


After 100 years since it's discovery, we still haven't pinned down the complete way insulin works, though we have a general idea.

So, perhaps this science will lead the way for a quantum leap in identifying and cures for chronic diseases.

PS - I spent enough time in the Orient to know that obscure (to us) Chinese medicine and herbal things do work, while remaining mysteries to Western Physicians.
172 posted on 12/14/2003 12:47:35 PM PST by XBob
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To: XBob
Physics versus ice-skating. Great. It's all there for your entertainment. 98% of Mensans sit and watch rather than participate. Being something such as a physicist would be the King of France in the garden with a trowel.
173 posted on 12/14/2003 12:48:40 PM PST by RightWhale (Close your tag lines)
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To: RightWhale
173 - "Physics versus ice-skating. Great. It's all there for your entertainment. 98% of Mensans sit and watch rather than participate."

sit down - you are right !

I am now retired, after a very full life of doing. I was going to be a chemical engineer, like my uncle, or could have been a NASA design engineer, like my brother - but I found these things too boring. So, I ended up getting into intenational heavy petro-chemical construction - building giant multi-billion dollar projects around the world, with sometimes hundreds of men working for me, going to exotic countries and jobs in far away places, around the world. One of my favorite was Nepal and a trip up the side of Mount Everest with my wife to be - who I met and asked on a date to go see the Taj Mahal. One of my least favorite experiences was breaking my leg avoiding landing on a barbed wire fence in the Philippines. But again, one of my favorites was up in the mountains in Saudi Arabia, looking at the stars, so clear and bright, I could read a newspaper (without a moon) just by the star lite.

So, having signing authority for millions of dollars worth of contracts/purchases and recommending authority for 10's and hundreds of millions meant I had to know a lot about a lot of things and be able to make major quantitative/qualitative decisions.

Similar to what I did as a USAF officer - where I killed and was nearly killed myself, and had to decide which of my friends and associates die while working with them.

Life as a scientist is just too boring for me, but fortunately, for all of us, we have enough who wish to be good scientists, and some even physicists. On one of my jobs, I had about 17 working for me, and I had to go justify money for their 'projects'.

I have done a bit of a lot of things - in fact, I once 'flunked' an aptitude/ability test. Well, not exactly, 'flunked'. During the oil crash in the 80's, in Houston, there was not a petro-chem job to be had, so I decided to change career fields, so I took this aptitude test, to find out where I should point my efforts. The scores came back, and I was called in, and my advisor said, I don't know exactly how to explain this, but the test is useless for you. We have had 8,754 people take this test over the past few years, and there are 66 categories, brick layer, accountant, surgeon, biologist, physicist, etc. And you are the 3rd one out of all those who has ever gotten all 66 categories. Most people get 1 or 2 or even 3 - but all 66 is nearly unheard of - so the test is useless for you. So, I went home to Kennedy Space Center and went to work for NASA on the shuttle.

Sorry - but I personally have been a 'participant', and how I would dearly love to be 20 years old again and chase those young female figure skaters around the rink until they 'all fall down' (into bed) - BTW, how many times have you been around the world?

PS - I quit Mensa too, for the same reason you mention - most Mensans do nothing useful with their brains. - Boring !!!!
174 posted on 12/14/2003 2:11:20 PM PST by XBob
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To: XBob
174 - "One of my least favorite experiences was breaking my leg avoiding landing on a barbed wire fence in the Philippines"

should have been:

"One of my least favorite experiences was SKY DIVING, breaking my leg avoiding landing on a barbed wire fence in the Philippines
175 posted on 12/14/2003 2:14:39 PM PST by XBob
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To: XBob
sorry -

""One of my least favorite experiences was SKY DIVING, breaking my leg avoiding landing on a barbed wire fence in the Philippines"

should have been:

"One of my least favorite experiences was BREAKING MY LEG, avoiding landing on a barbed wire fence while SKY DIVING, in the Philippines.

SKY DIVING is great - breaking my leg was no fun.
176 posted on 12/14/2003 2:37:59 PM PST by XBob
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PatrickHenry Placemarker
177 posted on 12/14/2003 4:36:36 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: RightWhale
170 - "Why should physicists be exempt?
It's hard to fake an atomic bomb."

True - but then, why/how do all the media and all the demonRATS keep claiming Bush2 faked weapons of mass destruction?
178 posted on 12/14/2003 5:50:07 PM PST by XBob
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To: XBob; longshadow; RadioAstronomer
Ah, I could do with a little entertainment tonight...thus I have read your posts.

161 - Well well well, speaking of envious, elitist, academic frauds, pretending. You should go back to making love to your non-existent man.

Delightful! More!

How many years of higher education do you have under your belt? How many graduate courses have you taken in the hard sciences? What kind of labs have you worked in...and pursuing what sort of research? Have you ever delivered a paper or even presented a poster session? Hmmm...I think I know the answers to all those questions.

As far as my "non-existent man"...the trouble, my dear, is that I have too many real ones to keep track of. BTW, I'm in a generous mood this Christmas season, how many vinyl repair kits do you need?

My childhood friends, neighbors, and girl friends fathers put those guys you are so envious of, on the moon, as we children watched out from our front doors or on the beach.

As did I...the difference between you and I however is that I am doing something with my life to realize those goals. What are you doing besides proving on FR that you are a "wannabe"?

Have you ever thought about trying out for the Dixie Chicks? You should fit right in.

Nah...I'm a bitch with a brain. They wouldn't want me.

179 posted on 12/14/2003 8:56:26 PM PST by Aracelis
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To: XBob; longshadow; RadioAstronomer
You asked - "When are we going back???" With your attitude, I guarantee it won't be any time soon, if ever. Why don't you learn Chinese.

Obviously you know less than nothing about me. As far as Chinese...believe me, it's on my "to do" list...unless of course the US gets off it's collective arse and goes back to the Moon.

180 posted on 12/14/2003 8:59:40 PM PST by Aracelis
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