Bill seen as threat to civil liberties

The Washington Times ^ | December 05, 2003 | Audrey Hudson

[Ron H.]

Tucked inside a intelligence spending bill awaiting the president's signature is a provision that allows the FBI to obtain an individual's financial records from pawn shops, casinos, car dealers and travel agents without a court order.

The measure was included in the intelligence authorization bill and expands on who can be served with "national security letters" that demand financial information on investigations relating to terrorism or counterintelligence. The letters, or subpoenas, do not require judicial review or approval.

[Ron H.]

Administration officials support the bill because it allows law enforcement to pursue investigations with greater speed and flexibility

In other words they don't want something like "contituytional protections" against unreasonable search and seizure and judcial oversight to get in their way. Why stop here, why not just go ahead and tear up that document, the U.S. Constitution altogether and be done with it. We are seeing our freedoms and rights being trampled on all in the name of fighting so called terrorism. The frog is indeed being boiled alive several degrees at a time and it makes not a peep.

[RandallFlagg]

Can someone pretty please list all these "Civil Liberties" everyone keeps talking about lately? Then, show their relevance in our Constitution.

[Doctor Stochastic]

These powers will be useful when President Hillary wants to find out who is attending GOP cacauses.

[Ron H.]

Ping....ping....ping

[WackyKat]

If you don't have anything to hide, what are you worried about? Only criminals squawk about their "constitutional rights"

[Ron H.]

If you don't have anything to hide, what are you worried about? Only criminals squawk about their "constitutional rights"

I bet you're loved over Justice...

[WackyKat]

I was being sarcastic. I just thought I'd get that in before some of the jackboot lickers did.

[Lunatic Fringe]

Honestly, I can't imagine the federal government doing much with my financial records. Besides, those records can already be accessed by credit card companies, mortgage brokers, my employer, and God only knows how many IT personnel who work at these companies.

It's actually frightening the number of people who already have access to your personal financial records. Privacy is an archaic ideal, unfortunately.

[Prime Choice]

Where were all these people when the real assault on our civil liberties began under the banner of "gun control"? Like it or not, the Leftists were the first to propose that liberty be sacrificed on the altar of "security". And now their crows are coming home to roost.

If they hadn't tried to make our Second Amendment rights subject to "interpretation," then none of our other rights would be undergoing the assault they are now.

They have none to blame save themselves.

[mfulstone]

Ummmm... Guess what -

All I need is your name and address and I can get a full credit report on you.

If a private citizen can do that, why not the gov't???

[mysterio]

Ok, this would apply to the Fourth Amendment. The Fourth Amendment used to protect us from unlawful search and seizure. It used to require a warrant if authorities wanted to snoop through your personal belongings and transactions. This bill says they can snoop with no warrant.

[Axenolith]

How about rephrasing that to "What authority is granted the Feds to know everything including the length of the dump we took this morning"...

Seriously RF, secure in persons and property definitly would apply to transaction records. If you actually DON'T want the terrorism, or crime for that matter, kill the people who commit it, don't screw the law abiding citizens...

[RandallFlagg]

No, I need to know where all of these are listed. I get into prettyprettypretty--ACK! (sorry. Byrd loop) heavy debates on other boards and I was just wondering where and what they all are.

[RandallFlagg]

I'm in agreement (Read my last post). I fully believe that if the constitution was reinstated, it would give us everything we'd require to fight and defeat terror in America.

[swilhelm73]

Bill seen as threat to civil liberties, huh? Well I've seen Bill Clinton as a threat to civil liberties since 1992, nice to see the press catching on though.

[babygene]

I had never cared for Butch Otter much, though his daughter went to school (college) with my daughter when he was Lt. Governor of Idaho. However I'm beginning to warm up to him...

When he replace Helen as our Representative I was of the opinion that he was a lightweight by comparison. Thank God he's proving me wrong.

[Revel]

"If you don't have anything to hide, what are you worried about? Only criminals squawk about their "constitutional rights"

Gee I wonder why the founding fathers did not think about that. And I wonder why we bothered to have Amendment protections in the first place. You need to take some history lessons.

[MontanaBeth]

"If you don't have anything to hide what are you worried about?"


You have to be joking, giving the government unlimited, unchallenged, unconstitutional access to PRIVATE business and we shouldn't be worried. I am very worried. Something to hide? Not yet but anyday now the government will make it against the law for something I'm doing.

[WOSG]

Senate committee staffers said the investigative tool is not new and was used in the past for money-laundering investigations. Those same tools should be available to investigate terrorism, they said, and were requested by the administration. Is what the article said. In other words, claiming there is nothing novel here, just learning to fight terrorists with the same tools we fought drug dealers.

You said: "We are seeing our freedoms and rights being trampled on all in the name of fighting so called terrorism."

What is "so-called" about terrorism? It kills real people, they arent just "so-called" victims.

[WOSG]

"Honestly, I can't imagine the federal government doing much with my financial records. Besides, those records can already be accessed by credit card companies, mortgage brokers, my employer, and God only knows how many IT personnel who work at these companies. It's actually frightening the number of people who already have access to your personal financial records. Privacy is an archaic ideal, unfortunately."

Dang, a guy called 'lunatic fringe' goes ahead and trashes the tinfoil hat, and now it's broken (sigh).