Posted on 12/05/2003 12:48:39 PM PST by veronica
I am ashamed to be a Muslim ... again. I am originally from a Muslim minority in Russia and I was never quite as ashamed of the Soviet Union, which I left as an anti-Communist emigrant long ago, as I am of the Muslim world that makes even the USSR look free and civilized.
Total gender apartheid, treating women worse than animals, tyranny, oppression, intolerance of any kind of free expression and on and on. The Muslim world is the world of no good news. And now, there's yet another sickening, albeit not surprising, headline: "Jews rule the world by proxy, says Malay leader" (P-I, Oct. 17).
Mahathir Mohamad, the Malaysian prime minister, speaking before a gathering of the world's Islamic leaders, invoked the same old, tired explanation of the Muslims' many ills and ailments: the Jewish conspiracy.
Judging by the many historical references he included in his speech, Mohamad read some history but he proved to be absolutely incapable of learning history's lessons. He alluded to Islam's glorious past when the Muslim world thrived economically and culturally and shone in science, medicine and education while the West was backward and savage, wallowing in the misery, famines and plagues of the Dark Ages.
True, but the roles have since reversed. It is the Muslim world in the Dark Ages now, as one can judge by Mohamad's speech and by his audience's reaction to it. The leaders of 57 Muslim countries greeted this hate tirade with a standing ovation and praised it as "a good road map." How pathetic.
A road map where? Deeper into darkness? During the Seven Golden Centuries of Islam, the Muslim world was tolerant of the Jews and provided a haven for hundreds of thousands fleeing the savage persecution in Europe -- a fact Mohamad acknowledged. But now it is just the opposite.
Mohamad noted that the West surged ahead of the Muslims during the Industrial Revolution. But who led this revolution? The English and the Dutch, the only ones in Western Europe who were tolerant to their Jewish communities.
On the other end of the spectrum was the Inquisition nation of Spain, which was totally bypassed by the Industrial Age, just like the Arabs. It was the only country in Europe that had completely "cleansed" itself of Jews. This put the "purified" Spaniards on a 400-year-long downslide into ever-greater corruption, backwardness, poverty and misery. Finally, after a series of shattering military blows from Anglos, both British and American, the Spanish Empire collapsed like a rotten shack.
No, Mohamad, the Jews do not "take over" the most powerful countries in the world. They help those countries that welcome them to become powerful and successful.
One hundred years ago, 1 million Jews fled from Tsarist Russia to the United States after a wave of pogrom atrocities. Russia's loss was the United States' gain. The Russian Empire had violently collapsed in just a decade and the United States, which entered the 20th century as a third-rate power, emerged from it as the world's unchallenged superpower.
Let's ponder the fate of all once-powerful enemies of the Jewish people: the Pharaohs of Egypt, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, the Inquisitor Spain, the Russian Tsarist Empire, the Nazi Reich. Did any one of them not suffer a brutal end?
In the Christians' Bible, there's a part about God cursing those who curse the Jewish people and the entire world history seems to confirm it. Now, whether you are Christian or not, whether you are religious or not, whether you call it God's law or the law of history, you have to agree that not one nation that persecuted Jews had escaped very bad consequences. I don't think this law has an exception for the Arabs or any other Muslims.
This is what we the Umma (the world Muslim community) should pause to think about. Only then might we be able to find our way out of darkness. Otherwise, I am afraid, the Muslim world will be beyond redemption.
Ruslan Tokhchukov lives in Redmond.
When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and genitals cut off, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)
"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)
"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)
"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)
"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)
Qur’an-(5:51): O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
Qur’an-(9:5): “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, And seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) ; but if they repent (accept Islam) and establish regular prayers and practices regular charity then open the way for them; for God is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.”
Qur’an-(8:65): “ O Apostle ! Rouse the believers to the fight, if there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering , they will vanquish two hundred; if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the unbelievers; for these are a people without understanding.”
Quran-2:216: Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you
Qur’an-(2:191): “And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out………such is the reward of those who suppress faith.”
Qur’an-(9:29): “Fight those who believe not the Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth even if they are the people of the book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
Qur’an(48:20): “….Allah promises you much booty (spoils of war) that you will capture from the defeated infidels….”
Quran-8:38 “And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression”
Quran-8:12: I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
Quran-8: 15,16: O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!
Quran-9:111: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an
Quran-9:123: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).
Quran-4:95: O ye who believe! Shall I show you a commerce that will save you from a painful doom? You should believe in Allah and His messenger, and should strive for the cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives. That is better for you, if ye did but know. ... Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than those who sit (at home).
[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, [5.34] Except those who repent before you have them in your power; so know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.
It is a pity for islam that we in the West can read. These are just a few of the verses in the koran that deal with killing non-muslims, there are many more.
Sure they are, but we are talking about what islam teaches not the islamic cults. You tried to compare islam's teachings to Christian cults not Christianity. Now you are trying to tell me that the terrorist are part of islamic cults not islamic fundamentalist. Barbra Streisand!
Like I said before, the problem for islam is that the West can read. The reason there is no big outcry against the terrorist in the muslim community(polls show that about 90% support the terrorist) is because going against the terrorist puts them against the korans teachings and thus worthy of death themselves.
Hmmmm...The last time I looked the Branch Davidians did not go out and kill non-Branch Davidians. They were a weird bunch of isolationist not murderers.
I will allow you that AQ is militant and evil but are trying in to follow all the teachings of the koran to the "T". Fundamentalist. Fundamentalist Christians do not kill, fundamentalist muslims do, a duty called for in the koran. BTW AQ's actions are supported by most muslims in the world today.
Muslims are allowed to lie to non-muslims and present islam in a better fashion to draw converts in. So one really begins to question your motives or if you are really this blind.
Not true that is islams demand that we submit to islamic belilefs.
Why not exlpain the meaning of the sword on most islamic countries flags?
Nobody is demanding on pain of death anywhere in the world that a muslim give up his beliefs unlike what muslims are doing to others around the world. You wish to remain in this religion that is easily disputed that is up to you, just don't think that your beliefs will be welcomed as normal by any American after 9-11(and for some of us who had studied islam, way before 9-11).
Islam is nothing but an enemy to freedom, and can never be anything but that, because of its teachings! The only way to change islam would be to change the koran itself. I will never understand why any muslim who truely moved to America for freedom would also bring their beliefs with them.
If you think that those verses are for us today why are the fundamentalist of both religions not out there violently killing odd all the non-Jews and Christians. There aren't any, so I quess those verses don't mean what you think they mean taken out of context. Unlike islam where I can find group after group using the verses I pulled out as a reason to kill, kill, kill!
I wager you that more than 95% of Catholics never even know of these barbaric Old Testament verses. The simple reason is, there are 52 weeks in the year, and the Catholics forefathers chose 52 paragraphs to read in church-all relating to love and forgiveness. Before you spend too much time defending the barbaric verses of the Koran, if I were you, I would write to the Islamic leaders urging them to “reform” this so called religion. We reformed Christianity! You are not any better than us!
Oop, oop, you've got to play by the rules you are imposing on me or allow me some room to explain. I haven't been able to get one word of explanation for any of those verses. Let me ask you what understanding of the Quran do YOU have? Have you read Tafsirs (explanations), listened to lectures, memorized verses in the original Arabic? Read a biography of Prophet Muhammad (SAW). I don't expect you to.
I spent a year studing islam. No, I will never memorize koranic verses, nor will I do it in the original Arabic. Internalizing and meditating on evil is not for me.
I threw out most of the islamic garbage I studied back then, so whether I read Tafisirs (explanations) I am not sure, but I did study the religion from islamic sources, if you are asking me whether I gave it a fair shake. Yes, I have read a biography of the very strange probably demmon possesed Mohammed.
Those violent verses were for a very specific time and purpose. No, Christian or Jew are violently exterminating non-Christians and Jews today(thus proving that those verses were for specific time and place not now) so you arguments are false otherwise good fundamentalist(people who follow the religion to the last word) would be out killing and forcing conversion around the world unlike islam where the verses I presented are a continous demand on followers. Be blind and twist meaning if you must but I won't.
I showed you many. These are verses used by fundamentalist to explain their reasonings for Jihad. You might not use them but the do and most of the muslim world agrees with them. It is in practice today and fundamentalist are killing today not cultist. If you wish to present a false picture of islam that is up to you I am not buying nor are Americans.
LOL!!!!
Now you are truely getting funny. It is so easy for muslims to become Christians or anything else in islamic countries!!! Sure they can, oh yes I forgot there is no one stopping them from leaving islam they will just be put do death, but they can leave islam.
Yeh, that will win over converts. Every Christian will tell you they were not following the Bible and will denounce them, unlike AQ and muslims. AQ are fundamentalist not cultist. Jim Jones did not base his doctrines on the Bible you might want to actually study his cult a little more the same goes for Manson. Though both make for intresting study.
And once again denounced by Christianity. Unlike AQ, Hamas, etc.
Hmmm...I do not know much about them, but maybe they are fighting back from all the islamic killing of Christians in Africa.
Tradition??? That word makes one wonder. As I said I do not know anything about them, but I do know of the islamic killings and enslavements of Christians in the Sudan and Ethiopia and several other spots in Africa all in the name of islam.
You should be. By the way, you had better go into hiding. Your own will now target you for death.
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