Posted on 12/05/2003 10:43:11 AM PST by vannrox
This is a subject near to my heart and my own spiritual journey, and I'd like to discuss it with as many intelligent minds as possible as I ponder it. It seems to me as though the most basic, intrinsic aspect of a religious philosophy is faith. I have been talking to a lot of Christians lateley, so I'm not sure if that is the prevailing veiw among people of other persuasions. Anyways, it seems to me as though a religion can really be boiled down to beliving that it is THE answer, and it seems to me as though atheism is no exception.
But this is where I came to realize there many different brands of thought given the title of Atheist, each with their own twists. Here are some categories that i have run across, and my opinion(just roll with me on this one):
Spiritual Atheists Some people claim to be "spiritual" but not "religious," disavowing belief in a god persay in favor of just not thinking about the issue. It sounds just lazy to me. They get the "all good people go to heaven" feeling without defining good, heaven, or even feeling itself. This may work for some, but it seems to lack any real thought into the matter.
Non-Practicing Atheists And there are the "Catholics" like my parents who dont buy a word the church says, but are so afraid of what it means to be atheist that they desperately cling to a religion that offers them no real meaning.
Deist Atheists Some people use Atheism to describe a sense of disbelief in the major established world religions, which to me sounds like it could still be a throwback to the deism of the 18th century. Basically it can be summed up as: There is some kind of god, hes a pretty decent guy, dont be an ass and everything will turn out ok somehow, once again, a little too lazy for me.
Orthodox Atheists Then there are the Atheists so absolutly steadfast in their disbelief in god that they would have made an excellent Christian in another life (THAT's an interesting turn of phase!). They dont buy the proof that the various religions offer, but the seem to narrowmindedly rule out any possiblities except absolute soulless oblivion. I have a friend like this, and i have yet to figure out how he can 100% FOR SURE rule out a higher power of any type...
Agnostics This is the only one that really makes sense to me. I mean, maybe there's a god. Probably not one of the big religion's vengeful, mythical "gods" with their spotty and doubtfully accurate "historical records," I doubt reincarnation that doesnt work well with the increasing entropy of the universe, and the evidence for it is even less credible than the rest ... But prove to me god's not just hiding...
Thats where i'm at right now. I would appreciate any input, even religious propaganda. I want to know the truth, even if it means the complete destruction of my current schema for faith.
I would even go so far as to recommend two such books, The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith, to anyone who is openminded enough to consider Christianity. I almost bought into it after reading those, but to me, there are still holes (i'll probably talk about those later) If your already Christian, they will strengthen your faith, and if not, they will rock your world...
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.If that’s compatible with the dictionary definition of religion, then you have your answer, but “faith” does not appear to be part of the definition.
That's right. And that is why I never brought up science. Scientific method, if applied to nonsense, simply yields scientific-sounding nonsense.
Still, it is based in the impossiblity to imagine the infinite. It does not preclude the existience of the metaphysical, however.
Do you think so? It seems to me we imagine the infinite all the time. Numbers are infinite. Nevertheless, the law of identity is not based on the "impossibility to imagine the infinite." It is based on the fact that in order to HAVE an identity there has to be that which is not a part of that identity. To have an "A" you have to be able to have "non-A".
My whole point about science is this: it is based on faith--faith that our measures of nature are accurate.
No it isn't. We revisit and recheck and re-evaluate our measures of nature all the time. That's what scientists do! Ever read a scholarly journal?
Bal, you took the name of a Tolkein demon w/ the Number of the Beast added to it..
MM, you boast about being a godless atheist in your tagline.
Then tribune 7 must be an open minded “agnostic” on whether Bush has maniacal motives behind the war with Iraq as radical Democrats charge. After all, to “disbelieve” their claims (same as a belief by his accounts) without absolute proof would make such an opinion “faith based” by his thinking.
I thought I'd given you one, but perhaps I posted it to someone else. Well, the upshot of it is, the concept of something that is "all-powerful" is internally incoherent. If it can do the impossible, then there is no impossible. If it can't, it's not all-powerful. We know there are things that are impossible. Therefore an all-powerful being can't exist.
Exactly the same thing can be said about those who profess religious belief
In my experience, there is not one bit of difference, on average, in the moral behavior of non-believers versus believers.
There are "saintly" atheists and there are evil atheists. There are saintly Christians( and Jews and Hindus and buddhists) and there are evil Christians( and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists)
Jumping in here. Where'd these 'laws of identity' come from? Did nothingness write these laws? Chance? The universe? How can we have laws but no lawmaker? They just are...or always were?
Nonsense. It is a philosophical position regarding one question in the field of metaphysics. That is all.
The big question is why don't you deserve to go there? What makes you good? You eat meat causing the death of innocent animals. You have some luxury items yet still haven't taken care of every orphan. Why don't you deserve to go to hell?
The reason to follow rules when it’s not to one’s immediate advantage is that it’s to one’s long term advantage to support a society that has rules and principles. Also the pride of knowing that one acts with honor. Of course no one can predict whether an atheist or a theist will give back cash register mistake in their favor. That’s character, what you do when no one’s looking.
I think that statement could be reversed and be just as true regarding theists.
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