'Doctor shopping' eyed in Rush [Fishing Expedition] case

Washington Times ^ | Friday, December 5, 2003

[JohnHuang2]

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) -- Investigators who raided the offices of Rush Limbaugh's doctors said in search warrants filed yesterday that the conservative radio commentator had engaged in illegal drug use and "doctor shopping" for prescription painkillers.

The warrants -- which name four doctors and several prescription drugs -- show that investigators were looking for records, including prescription disbursements, appointment schedules, receipts and a medical questionnaire, when they raided the offices on Nov. 25.

[JohnHuang2]

Friday, December 5, 2003

Quote of the Day by UCANSEE2

[Kay]

Whoa Dude!! If doctor shopping is a crime, better lock up most of my state. As if patients don't look for a doctor that will give them the type of care that they want including tests and meds such as Viagra, Vit B shots, antibiotics, and pain killers. Dude!!

[WackyKat]

I think they're really going after the doctors, not Rush

[cherry]

Doctor shopping So what?...that's not illegal and it happens all the time, all over the country...

this whole thing is just to get Rush.....it has no substance, no historical precedence, imo...

now if they think these docs are over prescribing, that is one thing....but the pts' are not the ones who are prosecuted....

[JohnHuang2]

Here's why these slimey "prosecutors" are leaking this tripe to the media: They have no evidence against Rush. If they did, they wouldn't be leaking.

[Indie]

Dr shopping is no crime. I think that's why Rush accuses DA of "fishing." Sounds like a case of thrown out evidence perhaps if the defense is good. Besides, Rush is innocent of any crime.

[Mike Darancette]

Rush was supposedly getting thousands of pills from his maid and now was getting massive prescriptions from at least 4 doctors?

Was Rush eating them in a bowl of milk for breakfast?

Something just doesn't compute.

[JohnHuang2]

Slimeball "prosecutors" don't have a case against Rush -- that's what's clear from all this.

[PFKEY]

As if patients don't look for a doctor that will give them the type of care that they want including tests and meds such as Viagra, Vit B shots, antibiotics, and pain killers. Dude!!

I think there are a couple of issues here.

Doctor shopping in the sense that he was looking for a doctor who would prescribe pain killers illegally. In that I think they mean that the Doctor was the one that was breaking the law by writting perscriptions that Rush's ailment did not warrent.

Why would a Doctor do that? Cause he was being paid to do it. Either by Rush, the pharmacy or even possibly the manufacturer or distributer.

The second issue as I see it is that Rush might legally and with medical need be prescribed a narcotic pain reliever from one Doctor then go to another to be treated for the same thing and not tell that second Doctor that he is already being treated and has a prescription for a narcotic pain reliever in hopes of obtaining another prescription. I think they call this double dipping.

[Wild Irish Rogue]

"Doctor shopping So what?.. that's not illegal and happens all the time,all over the country.."

Actually,doctor shopping, which is the legal term for going from MD to MD,for the purpose of obtaining narcotics under fraudulent circumstances,is illegal.Getting a second opinion or finding a physician you are more compatible with,is not. Florida passed a new law-SB 640, which now makes it a third degree felony to doctor shop for narcotics.Under SB 640, a doctor who prescribes a controlled substance that is excessive or inappropriate, can also be charged with a felony. The prosecutors are going to check the prescribing physician's records to see if they met the standard of care,for prescribing Schedule II narcotics. The standard of care would be a thorough physical exam, a medical history,requesting the patient's old medical records and speaking with his previous physicians, ordering diagnostic tests,referrals to pain management and neurologists for evaluation, possible physical therapy, etc. They are also going to follow the pharmacological paper trail. If the prosecutors were Republicans, I think they would have probably done the same thing-in order to avoid looking like they were cutting political favors.The bottom line is that Florida law gives the prosecutors the cover they need, to go after Rush.

[Az Joe]

Nice post. Let's see where the chips fall.

[LadyDoc]

doctor shopping is not the right word. The correct word is "double dipping"...

When a doctor prescribes a large amount of a narcotic, the assumption is that the patient is using the medication as prescribed...but some people go to two or three or four doctors with the same story, and get a lot more pain medication than is needed...essentially they lie.

For example, you might need Oxycontin 40 mg BID for your severe back pain. This is a class II narcotic, so most doctors would put you on a "pain contract" before prescribing it for a non terminal disease. The pain contract says that you have to tell all your doctors you are on this contract, and let the primary doctor know if you get Lortabs from the local ER or from another doctor...If you got to a couple places, this is "double dipping".

You can get physically "addicted" to pain medication, but most people in pain stay on the same dosage for long periods...(terminally ill people may need quickly increasing dosages to control their increasing pain).

But cancer patients and accident patients whose pain is relieved with other therapy usually can be physically withdrawn off of the medication...

Addicts however use pain medicine to feel good psychologically, and stay on it...the worst cases are people with back pain who overuse narcotics to treat their psychological pain...e.g. depression, low self esteem...

As for Rush, someone might want to look up Betty Ford, who was double dipping and getting her narcs from several doctors, but never went jail---unlike Rush, she "blamed" her doctors for her addiction, even though she was lying thru her teeth to get her narcs...

[zx2dragon]

You answered my question, thanks.

As for this whole thing with Rush, I doubt we're hearing everything and we probably won't until the investigation is done. I'll reserve any opinions until that time.

[Kay]

You must be quite familiar with Florida medical laws. In my state, the patient gets the protection. If a patient goes to a doctor with pain, their pain MUST be addressed, treated, and relieved (to the best ability) or the doctor is legally liable. (Not malpractice but legally.) The narcotic laws are liberal. No laws against "double dipping" in this state.

There was a case of a doctor who took a patient's word that they had cancer and treated the patient for years with dilaudid, having never requested the pathology reports. Doc got in trouble with the DOJ. But overall, the laws are very much in favor of the patient and their pain.

Have to say that if I were in pain, I would rather live in my state than in Florida. Unfortunately, many doctors don't understand pain management (eg. treat metastatic liver disease with vicodin----go figure) while some docs are wonderfully supportive and thorough.

[Mamzelle]

re: unlike Rush, she "blamed" her doctors for her addiction)))

I've detected a bit of the blame game coming from Rush's corner...I wonder if there'll be more.

[Lurking Libertarian]

Doctor shopping So what?...that's not illegal and it happens all the time, all over the country...

Florida has a "doctor shopping" law which makes it a crime to get prescriptions for controlled substances from more than 1 doctor at a time without telling each of the doctors that you're getting the same medications from the others.

[Mamzelle]

I much prefer your state's POV. IMO--get 'em out of pain first. Sigh. But it whipsaws back and forth--one year, the awful doc is a pusher. Next year, he is a coldhearted b%stard for not treating pain. Then, pusher again. ..

[harpo11]

What the heck is doctor shopping? How else does someone find a doctor other than to look for a doctor to treat your condition and cure you of whatever ails you, if possible? What does this FL DA expect people to do, call their local US Senator, Ted Kennedy, or Mrs. Clinton for their recommendations for a doctor?

Or is this just a wild and risky democrat scheme to assign us all a doctor from birth to the time we get sent up to the Pearly Gates?

Moreover, shouldn't the FDA and drug companies be held accountable for manufacturing and distributing painpills that could conceivably make anyone being prescribed such pills addicted?

[Hillary's Lovely Legs]

Limbaugh's drug that we know of from March to September.

[Kay]

How did this become public knowledge? This is a violation of the new strict privacy laws. Rush could file a huge lawsuit over the info in this post alone.