Ridge is ready to use UAVs; Fort and county could be base for a pilot project next year

Sierra Vista Herald, Sierra Vista Arizona ^ | 125/04/03 | Bill Hess

[endthematrix]

Yep! What a WOW factor for the media and public to show off those expensive UAVs with a tag line on its success on the front. Seeing is believing. When the numbers of our darling "undocumented workers" from our southern neighbor drops significantly, I'll believe.

[endthematrix]

There are plenty of eyes from DNR and others on the ground. Problem is not enough BP agents and spread far too thin.

[JustPiper]

I would worry they would get shot down by drug smuggler's

[HiJinx]

Actually, we only have 2 or 3 DNR (Game and Fish in AZ) agents in the area, but you are mostly correct when you consider the civilians who are out and about watching the border crossing points.

And you 110% correct when you say we need more BP agents and assets down here. Something as simple as transport...ICE simply does not have enough buses and vans to transport the illegals back to the border in an efficient manner.

(And please, don't talk about repeat crossers. I know they're going to come right back over! I know that we need to transport them deep into the interior, but that's not possible without a change in the status quo between the US and Mexico.)

[Poohbah]

I'm not going to hold my breath re:post#3, I'm very much afraid this is window-dressing. If they were serious, all UAV flights, training and otherwise, would be carried out in support of the Border Patrol starting yesterday.

And forget things like:

1. Posse Comitatus Act

2. Congress has not appropriated money for this mission, so the executive can't spend it for this mission

3. A majority of the UAV flights are RDT&E efforts with specific objectives that cannot be recast to support the Border Patrol

4. Tom Ridge is the Secretary of Homeland Security, not the Secretary of Defense

And the beat goes on...

Our system of government is not designed to turn on a dime, or the whim of a cabinet secretary. Our problem with the judiciary, for example, comes down to the fact that they are turning our system of government on a dime.

[HiJinx]

3. A majority of the UAV flights are RDT&E efforts with specific objectives that cannot be recast to support the Border Patrol

All very good points, Poohbah, except that one. Almost every UAV flight here at Ft. Huachuca is a training mission. This is where we train Army UAV pilots. It wouldn't take a Secretarial or DoD decision to train along the border.

It would, however, take a high level decision to convert the missions to BP support. Part of my concern in my previous post is that all of these decisions were begging to be made at least 5 years ago and the Army support to BP could have been in place for at least 2 years if not longer.

In fact, to avoid the Waco debacle (military equipment and personnel in support of civilian law enforcement), 5 years is more than enough time for DoJ to purchase the hardware and train the operators so that the DoD is left out of the equation.

[Poohbah]

All very good points, Poohbah, except that one. Almost every UAV flight here at Ft. Huachuca is a training mission. This is where we train Army UAV pilots. It wouldn't take a Secretarial or DoD decision to train along the border.

No, it wouldn't; it would take a CONGRESSIONAL decision--refer to the Posse Comitatus Act.

[HiJinx]

No, it wouldn't; it would take a CONGRESSIONAL decision--refer to the Posse Comitatus Act.

I'm going to split hairs here, although the point is moot if BICE buys UAVs and trains their operators, separate from any military action.

It takes Congressional action to allow the military to support civilian law enforcement. It only takes local command authority - a 2-star general - to establish training flight parameters. He will necessarily need to coordinate with the FAA for flight restriction rules, but that isn't a problem.

And this is not an arguable point. It - military training off the reservation - is current practice here at Ft. Huachuca. Support to BICE is not, however, happening at this time.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with you that the military should not be supporting BICE. But their experience should be transferred to that agency.

[Poohbah]

It takes Congressional action to allow the military to support civilian law enforcement. It only takes local command authority - a 2-star general - to establish training flight parameters.

But nothing that gets gathered on those missions can go to law enforcement, so there's no point. Additionally, flying those things along the border raises the possibility of losing one in Mexico, which would be a "vey series" security headache.

[HiJinx]

possibility of losing one in Mexico, which would be a "vey series" security headache.

We did that. A contractor programmed an exta zero into the 'go to' location when they were doing the testing of the Hunter or Shadow back in '95. The 'go to' location is a pre-programmed coordinate that the bird flies to if it loses the comms link.

The extra zero resulted in the UAV taking up a heading of about 180 degrees. It ran out of fuel somewhere over the Gulf of California, and the Mexican government did indeed raise a stink.

[Poohbah]

I'm more worried about what happens if one comes down over land. It might wind up growing legs, if you will.

[My2Cents]

Well, to listen to some of the naysayers in California, Arnold didn't oppose illegal immigration very strongly. I disagree, saying he'd call for a regional conference of governors to address the problem, and to approach the federal government. Arnold's threat to hit up the feds for money to absorb the impact of illegal immigration I think was a warning shot to the federal government, and a shrewd move.

[texastoo]

The voters of California have spoken. All politicians can spin the results any which way. But the bottom line is illegal immigration is an issue.

[HiJinx]

That's quite possible...and why a relatively 'cheap' throw-away using off-the-shelf technology such as Glenn Spencer uses would be the answer.

You don't give away any secrets, then. And his UAVs are so small, you can't arm them. They just won't carry anything heavier than a coupla hand grenades...hmmm...well, maybe you could arm them, then...ouch!

[At _War_With_Liberals]

You know what's funny? They were partly embarassed into this by citizens who took private action, flying little more than model planes with cheap cameras over border areas.

It's like cameras in the ghetto-"We don't need better enforcement or more arrests, we just need to put up a few cameras and crime would go down just the same."

Plays well, though, doesn't it? It's easier to sell a bill of goods when you can show off the hi tech hardware.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

A private group was flying little more than model airplanes with cameras and embarassed the govt.

[4.1O dana super trac pak]

Maybe Ridge got my letter?