Posted on 12/01/2003 8:42:08 AM PST by TomServo
CINCINNATI (AP) - A 41-year-old man who struggled with police officers in a restaurant parking lot died shortly after they used chemical spray and nightsticks to subdue him Sunday morning, police officials said.
The officers, who repeatedly used nightsticks on Nathaniel Jones, properly used force in trying to control him, police Lt. Col. Richard Janke said. Jones died at University Hospital.
Two officers responding to a call of a man acting strange got into a struggle with Jones after he took a swing at one of them, police said. It took six officers to get the 400-pound man to the ground and handcuffed, officials said.
After he had been restrained, officers realized something was wrong and called firefighters for help, Lt. Kurt Byrd said.
The two officers who first responded received cuts and scrapes.
"Those two officers were thrown around like rag dolls," said Roger Webster, president of the police union.
The coroner's office will determine the cause of death. The six officers have been placed on administrative leave while the death is investigated, based on department policy.
Thank you. That's what I was commenting on.
The officers responded precisely how one would expect them to in 2003, and according to procedure are entirely justified. Yes, there were no sniper units, hut hut gear etc in this instance, but let me ask you this; If this were 1975 or even 1985, do you honestly believe fat-boy would be dead this morning?
It sounds like you know some officers personally. Ask them about the new guys on their force. Chances are they'll comment on a difference in attitude. Many, many young officers (Your link states the 2 first reponders had 8 years combined experience) are straight from the military. They think very differently than an officer who came from the serve and protect era.
I'll grant you that nothing in either article says any officer acted improperly, and you are right to defend them. However, an officer with a "serve and protect" mentality would likely have secured a better outcome. Now there will be the inevitable race-baiting and tension in that city which may have been avoidable.
When will people ever learn how to interact with the law enforcement community? Your auto insurance company should print a short do's and dont's on the back of your auto insurance card or something. Guilt or innocence is of no use to a policeman. Keep yer trap shut, your arms at your sides, and no matter what, remember that it's a court that reviews evidence along with your attorney, not some guy with personal problems and a night stick. Sidewalk Justice will never work out to your benefit. Do however state your name loudly enough for passersby to hear or for any witnesses.
Because they want to live. By your comments, I'll bet you aren't a cop. If you were, you'd realize that every run of the mill traffic stop could be your last. You seem to want to make comparisons to cops when we were kids. How about making the same comparison of the thugs, when we were kids:
Today, the thugs have automatic weapons with fast loading clips/magazines, pipe bombs, armor piercing bullets, exploding bullets, cell phone coordination capabilities, night vision equipment etc. Yesteryear, you confronted a knife, maybe a pistol. Maybe thinking in these terms will help you understand the precautions taken by officers today.
The officers responded precisely how one would expect them to. Period.
but let me ask you this; If this were 1975 or even 1985, do you honestly believe fat-boy would be dead this morning?
Yes. He does not appear to have been beaten to death -- more likely, he died from a reaction to pepper spray (they'd have used mace 30 years ago), or a heart attack.
Why not just admit you've got an agenda that has nothing to do with this particular event.
I suspect he wouldn't have fought as hard in 1975 or 1985. I grew up on the wrong side of town, and I got simple instructions on how to deal with cops-no attitude, "Yes, sir" and do as you are told. Do not, at any time, resist. That dosn't seem burdensome.
I don't have a big issue here with this unfortunate incident. I assume the big fella fought it out with the cops and had a heart attack of some sort. But, there is no doubt that cops from local Barneys to FLEOs are exponentially more militarized. We had a thread a few months ago about some small town in Arkansas or Texas buying an APC with light machine gun mounts. It's a trend that has been building since the 70s.
With respect, I would like to point out that military vets are the epitome of the "serve and protect" mentality.
Thanks. After struggling with Christmas lights for the entire morning, I needed a good laugh.
If your argument has a 10% reality factor, how come you don't argue for tanks and CS gas for the squad? I bet you are just dyin to get the first cammo-painted Humvee at auction for the highway patrol aren't you?
They would if they had them back then.
Just like today, the technology has advanced. If cops back then could have gotten this gear they would have taken it.
Okay, there's no point trying to talk to you.
I just tried to point out a national trend I find disturbing and you attack me and try to paint me as whacko with some hidden agenda.
Correct. I suspect by your comments, neither are you.
If you were, you'd realize that every run of the mill traffic stop could be your last. You seem to want to make comparisons to cops when we were kids. How about making the same comparison of the thugs, when we were kids:
Today, the thugs have automatic weapons with fast loading clips/magazines, pipe bombs, armor piercing bullets, exploding bullets, cell phone coordination capabilities, night vision equipment etc. Yesteryear, you confronted a knife, maybe a pistol. Maybe thinking in these terms will help you understand the precautions taken by officers today.
Just Damn.
I think Gordo was just a bit over the top. What he describes is not the America I live in and if it's true, court records would support it. I read them each week and have not seen even one in three years in central Wisconsin. Either all those traffic stops where night vision goggles are being used are being sent to Guantanomo or a little embelishment is the story D'Jour.
Just what city is producing court records of Armor peircing rounds, bombs, cell phone called in strikes, night vision goggles, etc....? I need to see those court records! I also need to avoid the area.
Best to you for the holidays and stay healthy and safe.
I wouldn't accuse you of having a hidden agenda. The fact remains that you immediately jumped to the "musta been JBTs" conclusion for a case that clearly did not merit the charge.
And now you're trying to defend your claim.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.