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cert denied, Silveira (link)
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/orders/courtorders/120103pzor.pdf ^

Posted on 12/01/2003 8:24:27 AM PST by woerm

this is not good.

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/orders/courtorders/120103pzor.pdf

per the supremes any state can deny any right for whatever reason their leg can come up with

so long 14th ammendment incorporatoin, so long bill of rights it was a noble and honorable but apparently failed experiment

RIP US constution.

further info as it developes, probaly badly

At www.keepandbeararms.com

r


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; scotus; silveiravlockyer; silveria; supremecourt
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To: pro2A Mom
I agree, you are right! There are stronger cases out there, and the possibility of a friendlier Supreme Court in the future.

Don't forget the New Orleans Circuit ruling is still out there.

Name these "stronger cases", and provide a short disription of them. This case concerned the very types of arms that even the worst reading of the Miller case says are protected by the second amendment. It involves the sort that the framers of the 14th amendment stated would be protected from state infringement. The only thing that could have been better would be if it had been a challenge to the federal AW ban, just to simplify the issue down to a single point, rather than the two required in this case, namely "what does the Second Amendment do" and "does it do it to the states via the 14th amendment. There are also alot worse cases out there. Silveira and the others were all good guys, the case that the Court finally takes will probably involve some White Arayan Resistance scumbag who has shot up a church full of kids. You watch.

The 5th circuit courts ruling can, and will, be dismissed as mere dicta, that is language not directly related to the disposition of the case. Emerson did after all lose that case, and his RKBA, forever, for mere possesion of the same type of handgun issued to our troops, when under a boilerplate domestic restraining order of a type routinely issued in Texas courts. AFAIK, all of the other circuits agree with the 9th, that you do not have an individual right to keep and bear arms. So unless you live in the 5th circuits jurisdicition you're SOL. Even here in the 5th circuit, as long as there is a "reasonable basis" for any restrictions, and due process is observed, you're SOL.

This will only encourage the gun grabbers. Expect the new and improved federal assault weapons ban to be attached to some omnibus this or that law, by "unanamous consent", so that the CongressSlimes don't have to attach their names to it. That's how the Senate passed the recent "plastic gun" ban renewal. At minimum expect the current ban to be made permanent and further importation of regular capacity magazines, regardless of when manufactured, to be banned.

The dumb SOBs on the Court can't really understand what they've probably just done.

61 posted on 12/01/2003 10:23:11 AM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: ~Kim4VRWC's~
Posts #15 and #18 sum it up rather well.
62 posted on 12/01/2003 10:24:47 AM PST by Joe Brower ("If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever." - G. Orwell)
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To: woerm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1031630/posts

**LAST DAY TO SIGN UP AS A MONTHLY DONOR AND GET YOUR FREE LIMITED EDITION FR MUG!**
12/1/03 | Diotima


Posted on 12/01/2003 9:11 AM PST by diotima



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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1031630/posts
63 posted on 12/01/2003 10:25:06 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Sore@US, the Evil Daddy War bucks, has owned the Demonic Rats for decades!)
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To: woerm
per the supremes any state can deny any right for whatever reason their leg can come up with

Assuming I'm decoding this correctly, it is not true as a matter of law. Denial of cert means nothing, except in the particular case at hand, in which it means that the lower court rulings stand. It says nothing about the merits of the case, creats no law/precident. In this case it means we have no individual RKBA, at least in those circuits which have ruled that way, all but the 5th IIRC, and even there it's a weak right that can be abridged on a "reasonable" basis.

As a mater of practical politics, it means the gun grabbers will be emboldened and we can expect a sh*^storm of new gun ban/control legislation, at both the state and federal levels.

64 posted on 12/01/2003 10:29:16 AM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: July 4th; Neil E. Wright
"Yup. And while it's bad for the 9th, not for the rest of us. This case would not have turned out well at the Supremes. Wrong case at the wrong time."

Looks like we need a case similar to Roe vs Wade, using the Congressional Report Neil posted here to get around the Doctrine of Non-Incorporation, and blanketing all states with the Second Amendment. Argue the 'assault' configurations later.

65 posted on 12/01/2003 10:29:31 AM PST by Eastbound
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To: El Gato
If the SCOTUS insists on treason, the best case in the world will not move them.
66 posted on 12/01/2003 10:30:54 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
"There is no possibility of a friendlier SCOTUS."

Please, keep hope alive.

Otherwise, I fear, the excrement hits the fan.


67 posted on 12/01/2003 10:31:53 AM PST by neverdem (Say a prayer, identify your enemies, then either expose or annihilate them.)
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To: woerm
Here's what I wrote last week about this:

I think the SOB's (including all three branches of gov, both main parties, and most state/local govs) really do not think that the good citizens would go to 'extremes' over gun rights. They have successfully changed the RKBA to the PKBA - the permission to keep and bear arms. On paper, they are right since guns are the single most regulated of consumer products.

However, the basic rights delineated by the B of R's exist whether governments like them or not - they have the power to deny these rights, but not the legal/ethical/moral authority to do so. And possibly, if they get too strenous in trying to forcibly deny the right to arms, they might go too far and incur the wrath of not just a few patriots.

Since the 9th Circuit decision in Silveira, nothing has changed in Cal vis-a-vis my ability to purchase weapons; the AW's (@sswipes, not assault weapons) in the state legislature would sure like to write a total gun ban bill, but they are not in a position to actually get it signed into law at this time because of the successful recall election. True, Arnold is not a total gun rights supporter, but the RATs are still in a bit of shock over the recent exercise of "the power of the people". Not that I think they (mostly the RAT party)will ever abandon their desire for total control/tyranny; people are just not going to see what good can come from giving up grandpa's Model 94 Winchester, nor his Remington .30-06. The trick used by the enemies of freedom is to villify weapons like the dreaded black rifle and stick it with a bad moniker - "assault weapon" - and then play up the public relations war with their commie allies in the mainstream media. "Sniper Rifle" just ain't going to cut it when talking about the family deer rifle.

The US SC could go either way with this case, if they agree to hear it, which I do not think will happen. No, the one sure thing about the Court is that most of the associate justices are cowards. Its one thing to put out a half-@ssed piece of drivel about the University Michigan Law School admissions policy, and quite another to set in motion the destruction of the Republic. The majority may be commies but they are not stupid. If they do agree to hear this case, the most likely outcome will be another 'compromise' decision which defines the RKBA as an individual right, subject to a certain level of restriction as to who may own what type of guns, with the government reserving the (unconstitutional) authority to exercise "compelling interest" in keeping certain "highly dangerous" weapons banned. Such a decision might be thought to maintain the status quo, but anything which actually defines an individual right would be good.

68 posted on 12/01/2003 10:34:33 AM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: 45Auto
Their failure to uphold the Constitution means the Republic is already gone.

They are just too cowardly or too smart to admit it.

The sheeple will go back to sleep again, and they can go on with their evil work.
69 posted on 12/01/2003 10:39:29 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
Cowardly is the best word to describe the current US SC justices. And to use the word "justice" when describing part of the function of the court is to demean the very idea of justice. No, the Constitution has become what we have always feared: a "living" document, just so much smelly, old, tattered paper, written in a time when America was "quaint", by old, dead white guys who couldn't possibly have understood what the future America would look like.

The Supreme Court of today must surely hand down decisions based, not on solid Constitutional principle, but on currently defined social mores, personal political whim, and just good old fashioned corruption and intellectual dishonesty.

The judiciary has become just another engine driving the once-free Republic to tyranny. Governments have always been enemies of freedom; their very definition involves not freedom, but coercion; not liberty, but slavery; not personal responsibility, but the ever-ready nanny-tit, dispensing the milk of the treasury to those who "play the game." The Republic is damn near dead - long live the Republic.
70 posted on 12/01/2003 10:49:32 AM PST by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: wardaddy
Was Emerson in the 5th "en banc"?

No, the request for a rehearing en banc, as well as one for cert to the Supreme Court, were denied. See: SAF Emerson page

71 posted on 12/01/2003 11:01:44 AM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: pro2A Mom
"I also told him that the 97th Congress, Committee on the Judciary, Subcommittee on the Constitution, found that indeed, there IS AN INDIVIDUAL RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. (he did not know this!-hehe!)"

You're good. ;-)

72 posted on 12/01/2003 11:15:59 AM PST by Badray (Molon Labe!)
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To: woerm
I'm not surprised the 9th Circus can't understand the very plain words of the Constitution. They have been judicially illiterate for a very long time now.

And I guess I'm not surprised either with the contortionist antics of the Supreme Court. It has ignored the plain language of the same document for a long time now and instead substituted it's own whim and verbage.

Is it time yet, Claire?

73 posted on 12/01/2003 11:23:36 AM PST by Gritty ("The First Amendment was written to protect religious values from government tyranny"-Ronald Reagan)
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To: Eastbound
Looks like we need a case similar to Roe vs Wade, using the Congressional Report Neil posted here to get around the Doctrine of Non-Incorporation, and blanketing all states with the Second Amendment.

We already have the 14th amendment. We don't need a right or a federal power to enforce it, made up out of a penumbra, it's already there and the Supreme Court is refusing to enforce it.

Personally I'd rather the SC first affirm an individual right, getting that applied to the states should be easy after that.

What I find particularly embittering is reading some of the junk the court did grant cert on. One case could result in a bunch of convicted murders not getting executed, simply because a judge, rather than a jury, imposed the sentence, as provided for under various state laws. This is not a Constitutional question, IMHO. The Court has declared that the penumbral rights of criminals, convicted by a jury as the Constitution specifies, are more important than the rights of upstanding, law abiding, individuals such as Silveira and the co-appellees.

The situtation is really begining to be alot like the one described in this document

74 posted on 12/01/2003 11:30:42 AM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: Gritty
Is it time yet, Claire?

As Claire herself stated, if you have to ask, then it probably IS past due time.

75 posted on 12/01/2003 11:32:32 AM PST by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: Dead Corpse; Gritty; bang_list
Hi all,

Claire has several points.

I would prefer to add one

http://www.lizmichael.com/windowwa.htm

since the SCOTUS dodged this again and I see no hope of positive outcome in the CATO suite

If upstanding 'Californa gentlemen' can't get a 2A arguement in front of the SCOTUS no Denzien of the Logic Free (Washington, DC) zone has a chance in h*** of getting a hearing on anything espically with the NRA dipstick hollering 'we want to register guns...' I can't wait to see that one in the Brady bunch liturature.

where the toads feel heat they may see the light (fat chance)

r
76 posted on 12/01/2003 11:49:05 AM PST by woerm (student of history)
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To: woerm
Gee, it would be a such shame if the windows in the homes of certain black-robed types were broken in the next few nights...
77 posted on 12/01/2003 12:26:06 PM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: Ancesthntr; *bang_list
I would be shocked, shocked I tell you.

r
78 posted on 12/01/2003 12:30:43 PM PST by woerm (student of history)
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To: El Gato
The supreme court has decided to wait for a different test case. Period.

No big deal. It is not time to worry yet.
79 posted on 12/01/2003 12:56:04 PM PST by TaxRelief
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To: El Gato
AFAIK=As far as I, what's the K?
80 posted on 12/01/2003 1:22:45 PM PST by neverdem (Say a prayer, identify your enemies, then either expose or annihilate them.)
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