Bold Studies Consider Whether Animals Know What They Don't Know

Wall Street Journal ^ | November 28, 2003 | SHARON BEGLEY

[PatrickHenry]

The bottle-nose dolphin wasn't talking, but as he swam toward the two paddles dangling in the pool at the Dolphin Research Center in Grassy Key, Fla., his body language spoke volumes.

He had been trained to respond to musical tones piped into the water, pushing one paddle if the pitch was higher than 2,100 cycles per second and a second paddle if it was lower. At tones markedly below 2,100, he swam straight for the correct paddle, touched it, and enjoyed the herring that came his way. But when the scientists played a 2,087 tone, the dolphin slowed down, wavered, or shook its head from side to side.

[PatrickHenry]

A subscription is required to access the Journal, but the entire article is posted above. The portions in bold font were emphasized by me; there is no bold font in the original.

[PatrickHenry]

PING. [This ping list is for the evolution side of evolution threads, and sometimes for other science topics. FReepmail me to be added or dropped.]

[balrog666]

The monkeys' and dolphin's reports of uncertainty in what they know or remember, she adds, seems equivalent to human consciousness.

Degree, not kind. What a surprise - NOT!

[Buck W.]

In a related experiment, the nine democrat presidential candidates were dumped into a pool and trained to swim to a paddle if they had a plan. Any plan.

No paddle movement has yet been recorded.

[angkor]

Spend some time in the open ocean with a pod of wild dolphins.

Once you've recovered from the experience, repost.

[boris]

"The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is.

Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.

"In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the missile is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the missile must also know where it was.

"The missile guidance computer scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the missile has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error."

[PatrickHenry]

That missle sounds like it's smarter than some people I've run into.

[boris]

"That missle sounds like it's smarter than some people I've run into."

But not smart enough to say, "Hey, wait a sec. If I follow this program I'm gonna die!"

--Boris

[spodefly]

"If we were equally rigorous in what proof we demand of consciousness in people," he said, "we couldn't infer conscious thought in each other, either."

I often find it difficult to infer conscious thought in other people.

[Consort]

I read that animals are impressed by nature directly through the senses and respond immediately to the impressions received, rather than using thinking as per human customs. Thinking would inhibit their immediate response to impressions.

[Voltage]

I have often wondered if the cattle realize we are just fattening them up for a good meal!

[RaceBannon]

Try swimming in the open ocean with a small school of porpoises, in the wild, in Hawaii, with no other humans for miles...

Makes you appreciate the intelligence that God put into these creatures from Creation past.

[John Valentine]

In a related experiment, the nine democrat presidential candidates were dumped into a pool and trained to swim to a paddle if they had a plan. Any plan. No paddle movement has yet been recorded.

And in yet another experiment a prominent Democrat Senator was dumped into a body of water. He swam immediately to the other side and checked into a cheap motel.

[John Valentine]

"If we were equally rigorous in what proof we demand of consciousness in people," he said, "we couldn't infer conscious thought in each other, either."

I have been reasonably certain of the truth of this supposition since the Carter election.

[PoisedWoman]

"Meta-cognition is considered one of our most sophisticated capacities." Among other things, it's the ability to realize, after perusing a column, that you have no idea what you just read.

I often have that feeling after reading Reuters "news" and books by liberals and listening to speeches by Dems. Seemed to me that they were intentionally plotting to bewilder people into submission. But perhaps I do the Rats an injustice. After all, the article goes on to state:

Rats and pigeons, though undeniably clever, don't seem to know when they don't know.

[angkor]

Try swimming in the open ocean with a small school of porpoises, in the wild.

Been there, done that. Bottle-nose dolphins, not porpoises.

Were you on their turf, or were they on your turf?

Who's the smartest mammal in the ocean?

You know the answer. Confess.

[angkor]

Gregory Bateson was the philosopher/anthropologist who made it known that only humans and dolphins exercise the faculty of "learning about learning."

In other words, both dolphins and humans know "what we don't know" and know how to learn more.

Bateson called it "second-order learning," and only humans and dolphins are know to possess that faculty.

[FixitGuy]

"And in yet another experiment a prominent Democrat Senator was dumped into a body of water. He swam immediately to the other side and checked into a cheap motel.

And left his female companion to float to the surface in a locked car, thereby failing life's test!

[hillary's_fat_a**]

No paddle movement has yet been recorded.

Of course, it could also be that the group of nine has been trained by Ted "the swimmer" Kennedy, in which case they probably hopped out of the pool, talked to their cousin, went to a hotel and made sure that they were seen by a hotel employee around 2:30 a.m. or so - and then in the morning, feigned fatigue, amnesia, yada yada yada. For more details, read "Senatorial Privelege" by Leo Damore, or visit ytedk.com

[ChemistCat]

Cool article. Doesn't surprise me at all.