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War critics astonished as US hawk admits invasion was illegal
The Guardian ^ | 11/20/2003 | Oliver Burkeman and Julian Borger

Posted on 11/20/2003 6:10:32 AM PST by JohnGalt

War critics astonished as US hawk admits invasion was illegal

Oliver Burkeman and Julian Borger in Washington Thursday November 20, 2003 The Guardian

International lawyers and anti-war campaigners reacted with astonishment yesterday after the influential Pentagon hawk Richard Perle conceded that the invasion of Iraq had been illegal. In a startling break with the official White House and Downing Street lines, Mr Perle told an audience in London: "I think in this case international law stood in the way of doing the right thing."

President George Bush has consistently argued that the war was legal either because of existing UN security council resolutions on Iraq - also the British government's publicly stated view - or as an act of self-defence permitted by international law.

But Mr Perle, a key member of the defence policy board, which advises the US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, said that "international law ... would have required us to leave Saddam Hussein alone", and this would have been morally unacceptable.

French intransigence, he added, meant there had been "no practical mechanism consistent with the rules of the UN for dealing with Saddam Hussein".

Mr Perle, who was speaking at an event organised by the Institute of Contemporary Arts in London, had argued loudly for the toppling of the Iraqi dictator since the end of the 1991 Gulf war.

"They're just not interested in international law, are they?" said Linda Hugl, a spokeswoman for the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, which launched a high court challenge to the war's legality last year. "It's only when the law suits them that they want to use it."

Mr Perle's remarks bear little resemblance to official justifications for war, according to Rabinder Singh QC, who represented CND and also participated in Tuesday's event.

Certainly the British government, he said, "has never advanced the suggestion that it is entitled to act, or right to act, contrary to international law in relation to Iraq".

The Pentagon adviser's views, he added, underlined "a divergence of view between the British govern ment and some senior voices in American public life [who] have expressed the view that, well, if it's the case that international law doesn't permit unilateral pre-emptive action without the authority of the UN, then the defect is in international law".

Mr Perle's view is not the official one put forward by the White House. Its main argument has been that the invasion was justified under the UN charter, which guarantees the right of each state to self-defence, including pre-emptive self-defence. On the night bombing began, in March, Mr Bush reiterated America's "sovereign authority to use force" to defeat the threat from Baghdad.

The UN secretary general, Kofi Annan, has questioned that justification, arguing that the security council would have to rule on whether the US and its allies were under imminent threat.

Coalition officials countered that the security council had already approved the use of force in resolution 1441, passed a year ago, warning of "serious consequences" if Iraq failed to give a complete ac counting of its weapons programmes.

Other council members disagreed, but American and British lawyers argued that the threat of force had been implicit since the first Gulf war, which was ended only by a ceasefire.

"I think Perle's statement has the virtue of honesty," said Michael Dorf, a law professor at Columbia University who opposed the war, arguing that it was illegal.

"And, interestingly, I suspect a majority of the American public would have supported the invasion almost exactly to the same degree that they in fact did, had the administration said that all along."

The controversy-prone Mr Perle resigned his chairmanship of the defence policy board earlier this year but remained a member of the advisory board.

Meanwhile, there was a hint that the US was trying to find a way to release the Britons held at Guantanamo Bay.

The US secretary of state, Colin Powell, said Mr Bush was "very sensitive" to British sentiment. "We also expect to be resolving this in the near future," he told the BBC.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: assholejohngalt; bailingout; galtnofriendofbush; iraq; neoconservatives; nofriendofbush; perle; richardperle
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Perle is no friend to the Bush Administration and with his now multiple financial scandals, should be fired ASAP.

"I think in this case international law stood in the way of doing the right thing."

"international law ... would have required us to leave Saddam Hussein alone",

1 posted on 11/20/2003 6:10:33 AM PST by JohnGalt
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To: mr.pink; Burkeman1
Can you believe this guy?

Look at those quotes given to a foreign audience; what the hell is he up to?
2 posted on 11/20/2003 6:11:50 AM PST by JohnGalt ("Nothing happened on 9/11 to make the federal government more competent.")
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To: JohnGalt
I have a different interpretation of this comment. I don't read "the war was illegal" - I read "the concept of international law is a useless, meaningless joke."
3 posted on 11/20/2003 6:13:02 AM PST by sanchmo
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To: sanchmo
I have a different interpretation of this comment. I don't read "the war was illegal" - I read "the concept of international law is a useless, meaningless joke."

It would be interesting to see the entire quote to understand the context of this one sentence.

4 posted on 11/20/2003 6:13:46 AM PST by dirtboy (New Ben and Jerry's flavor - Howard Dean Swirl - no ice cream, just fruit at bottom)
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To: JohnGalt
Actually, his point regarding international law was good: if the invasion violated international law, the defect is with international law, not the invasion.
5 posted on 11/20/2003 6:14:03 AM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: sanchmo
That's what I see.
6 posted on 11/20/2003 6:14:50 AM PST by DeuceTraveler ((wedgie free for all))
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To: sanchmo; JohnGalt
He did speak yesterday at the ICA, but there is no transcript on their site.
7 posted on 11/20/2003 6:16:02 AM PST by dirtboy (New Ben and Jerry's flavor - Howard Dean Swirl - no ice cream, just fruit at bottom)
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To: JohnGalt
To quote Ann Coulter, "Look, let's be honest, International law is whatever the United States and Britain says it is."


8 posted on 11/20/2003 6:16:04 AM PST by MNnice
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: JohnGalt
If you read Perle's statement you see that he is absolutely correct and the breathless headline is as usual biased in it's interpretation.

Either we respect our national security mandate or we bow to international law.....WHICH IS IT GOING TO BE!!!

10 posted on 11/20/2003 6:17:09 AM PST by OldFriend (DEMS INHABIT A PARALLEL UNIVERSE)
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To: JohnGalt
This article is a pile of garbage and the quotes certainly don't justify the headline. Just another attempt at Bush bashing.
11 posted on 11/20/2003 6:17:54 AM PST by Queen of Excelsior
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To: dirtboy
I agree and otherwise I would have liked to double check a transcript before posting this article, but when I saw it, I was pretty steamed that Perle is up to something and thought it best to go ahead and post the article.


I am truly embarrassed by these posters who think this was a smart thing to say by an underling to a foreign audience.
12 posted on 11/20/2003 6:18:10 AM PST by JohnGalt ("Nothing happened on 9/11 to make the federal government more competent.")
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To: Queen of Excelsior
Perle bashing you mean, right?
13 posted on 11/20/2003 6:18:29 AM PST by JohnGalt ("Nothing happened on 9/11 to make the federal government more competent.")
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To: JohnGalt
I will believe 'international law' exists when I can dial I-911 and get the international police. But even then, I wouldn't necessarily think it was a good thing.
14 posted on 11/20/2003 6:18:34 AM PST by Grut
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To: JohnGalt
What's funny is you try to present this as a serious article to slam the Bush administration and peddle your lefty screed, as if it were some concession that the war was "illegals" -- the leftist mantra.

But it is a criticism of so-called international law.

The first sentences and premise of the article that the war was illegal and he admitted it is lie and distorts what was said as well -- a tip off to the leftist agenda driven piece.

If you believe there is or should be some sort of global super entity with authority over the US you'd like this article.

15 posted on 11/20/2003 6:18:55 AM PST by tallhappy
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: JohnGalt
"They're just not interested in international law, are they?" said Linda Hugl

Nope. Glad you dimwits finally got that through your thick skulls.

17 posted on 11/20/2003 6:20:57 AM PST by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, 'Zoolander')
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To: JohnGalt
It doesn't take much intellectual horsepower to go through the exercise: What is international law?
To whom does it apply?
Who enforces it?

I have a strong feeling that for any normal person, viewing "international law" against the backdrop of the real world, his head would explode.

There is something about official diplomacy that is not quite real.

18 posted on 11/20/2003 6:21:55 AM PST by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: JohnGalt
Perle bashing you mean, right?

No. US of A and Bush administration attacking.

I also think you have the other reasons for your vitriol and comments.

Obsession with the "neo-cons" is pathological these days and a huge portion is driven by the same ol same ol' anti-semitism.

It's been amazing to see.

I figure that's what is driving you as much as anything as well.

19 posted on 11/20/2003 6:22:31 AM PST by tallhappy
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To: tallhappy
Sorry, buddy.

I am a Bush supporter where as you, apparently are a Richard Perle Global Democratic Revolution Trotskyite. If you are so naive to politics that you can't even consider that Perle might possibly be up to something then there is little anyone can do for you at this stage.
20 posted on 11/20/2003 6:25:16 AM PST by JohnGalt ("Nothing happened on 9/11 to make the federal government more competent.")
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