Bush says Muslims and Christians Worship Same God

CNN | 11/20/03

[truthandlife]

I was watching the Tony Blair and President Bush press conference and an American reporter asked a question on the lines of do you believe Muslims and Christians worship the same God.

President Bush said that Christians and Muslims worship the same God!!!!

[SupplySider]

By default, yes. Again, anyone worshiping any god but Jesus is worshiping Satan by default.

I'm curious and mean no disrespect, but do you avoid contact with Jews (and adherents of other religions)? Do you vote against them on the basis of their faith? If I truly thought someone was worshipping Satan, I would avoid them, vote against them when possible, and hope they would not reproduce.

[punster]

"I don't know if you are trying to be blasphemous or really don't know much about what you are critisizing. Christianity is based on the promise of atonement. Hell is for those who are not saved by grace, which requires a Christian faith."

People can claim to be Christian, but that does not mean they are faithful to some of the tenets of Christianity. Examples: An individual can cheat their neighbors, but since they claim to be Christian, they feel like they have forgiveness. Then, they repeat the process of cheating their neighbor the next day, and then assume they will be continually forgiven. Their problem is they have a total lack of sincerity about their Christianity.

Some examples of such individuals:

William Judas Clinton

Hillary Rotten Clinton

Jesse Jackoff (Jesse Jackson)

Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker


They all claim to be Christian, but they are out to take advantage of everyone they can. Don't tell me that just claiming to be Christian is sufficient.

[armydoc]

"I'm curious and mean no disrespect, but do you avoid contact with Jews (and adherents of other religions)? Do you vote against them on the basis of their faith? If I truly thought someone was worshipping Satan, I would avoid them, vote against them when possible, and hope they would not reproduce."


Absolutely not! As a follower of Jesus, I am commanded not to put my "light under a bushel". It is my responsibility to spread the Gospel with love and respect, which is why I would not whip out the "satan worship" thing when personally witnessing to a non-believer. I would, however, make it clear that the decision is Jesus or hell. As far as voting, a candidate's faith (and his demonstration of that faith) is a factor that I consider. A professed Christian who has demonstrated his faith (as GWB has) is more likely to support my philosophies (pro-life, etc). Having said that, a non-Christian is not automatically ruled-out.

[SupplySider]

It is my responsibility to spread the Gospel with love and respect...

That is a most refreshing contrast to the "convert them, tax them, or slay them" idea of fundamentalist Muslims.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

...the One whom you worship without knowing...

I bet Romulus, like you, knows exactly to whom he prays.

Any Christian who says otherwise faces calamity.

"For there are certain men crept in uawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." - Jude 1:4

And I'd further wager than even our President understands the truth of our shared convictions.

"Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. " - Matthew 10:32-34

My hope is that Bush knows he's walking a fine line between being "wise as serpents" and blasphemy.

[punster]

"Sure, you can find good people here and there, but the religion of Islam is itself evil and pernicious."

My response is: It is not so much the religion itself, it is the religious leaders that are evil and pernicious. Organized religion is actually more a business than altruism. Of course, the religious leadears want to destroy the competition and frighten the people, so they will have more money in their own coffers.

Sorry that I am so cynical about organized religion, but history does not paint a nice picture of organized religion.

Some examples:

1. The Pharisees and Saducees during the biblical era.

2. Spanish Inquisition. There was a wholesale effort to torture and kill Jews and Muslims and others so their property could be confiscated and added to the coffers of the Church.

3. Salem Witch Trials. Religious leaders taking advantage of hysteria to further their own power.

4. Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker. Profiting from whipping people up to milk them out of millions of dollars in donations.

5. Jesse Jackson (Jesse Jackoff). Race Baiting to further his own power.

6. The Clintons. Carrying a Bible to cover for his promiscuity and questionable ethics.

I am sure that in the eyes of God, it is the effort that people make to be better people is what counts.

[punster]

"Sure, you can find good people here and there, but the religion of Islam is itself evil and pernicious."

My response is: It is not so much the religion itself, it is the religious leaders that are evil and pernicious. Organized religion is actually more a business than altruism. Of course, the religious leadears want to destroy the competition and frighten the people, so they will have more money in their own coffers.

Sorry that I am so cynical about organized religion, but history does not paint a nice picture of organized religion.

Some examples:

1. The Pharisees and Saducees during the biblical era.

2. Spanish Inquisition. There was a wholesale effort to torture and kill Jews and Muslims and others so their property could be confiscated and added to the coffers of the Church.

3. Salem Witch Trials. Religious leaders taking advantage of hysteria to further their own power.

4. Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker. Profiting from whipping people up to milk them out of millions of dollars in donations.

5. Jesse Jackson (Jesse Jackoff). Race Baiting to further his own power.

6. The Clintons. Carrying a Bible to cover for his promiscuity and questionable ethics.

I am sure that in the eyes of God, it is the effort that people make to be better people is what counts.

[kkindt]

If Jesus is God, which Christians believe He is, then if Jews won't worship Him nor will Muslims how can you or the President say we worship the same God? If Jesus was wrong and He was not God then Christians are not worshipping a God at all but a man.

Commie Basher why not bash the idea that we all worship the same God? I'd go along with the idea that there is only ONE GOD to be worshipped. But to say we all worship Him ignores the fact that we don't!

To a Jew or a Muslim it is blasphemy to say Jesus is God. So how can we be worshipping the same God? There are Jews who worship Jesus Christ - who believe He is God and those Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus do worship the same God as Christians - for in fact they are Jewish Christians. If a Muslim would say that Jesus is God, but Allah is not God then he'd stop being a Muslim and be a Christian. Jews on the other hand who are Jews because of their descendancy from Abraham can still be Jews in that sense when the come to believe in Jesus as their Lord, Savior and the God of Abraham.

Let's keep it simple. We both agree there is but ONE GOD. If Jesus Christ is God and someone says to Him "NO you are not God" then that person doesn't worship God.

[kkindt]

The new catechism you speak of has ignored the words of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself:

"If you deny me before men, I will deny you before the Father in Heaven" Matthew 10

If someone denies Jesus Christ is God then Jesus Christ denies that person before the Father. Hence Muslims who deny Jesus Christ is God, if they do not come to believe in Him, are not worshipping God despite the catechism unless you exalt it above God.

[samtheman]

You're missing the point. There are good and bad people in every religion, in every group, in every walk of life.

But the difference with Islam is in the doctrine itself.

It's in the Koran.

Kill those who refuse to convert.

It's in the Koran.

Beat women who don't cover their bodies.

It's in the Koran.

Stone women (not men) to death for adultery.

It's in the Koran.

Good people may come and go but an evil doctrine ends up subverting the minds of many.

[Jacvin]

We should not have gotten so personal in our attacks on each other.

I apologize for my part in it but I knew there had to be a story behind your opinions. Traditional Catholics think like I do.

Glad you finally admitted the following though:

"Like it or not, I am the face of modern Catholicism. I'm also a libertarian for peace."

Sorry, but you're not the face of modern Catholicism, just liberal Catholicism.

I lapsed also when I was younger, in much the same way as you, but one always returns.

I'm a Traditional Catholic and when the American Catholic schism comes we'll be on different sides.

Too bad.

[punster]

The point I am trying to make is: We cannot make a blanket judgement of Muslims, just like we cannot make a blanket judgement of Christians.

Some of the extremist Islamist religious leaders do not serve God, or Allah as they call him. They are only fanning the flames of hatred and intolerance to further their own power and wealth. I believe that religion must be able to reach an accomodation with increases in knowledge and wisdom. The more extremist elements will not do so, because that would endanger the power structure.

The common practice of the time, when the Koran was written, did include some of the actions you have condemned. Behavior such as killing of women who had been raped (honor killings), treating women as second class citizens (beatings and killings), were common practice at that time in the middle east.

I will not defend the Muslim leadership in those countries, because they are unwilling to work for change to make things better for women. Furthermore, those leaders are bigots, because they will not acknowledge that others have virtues. But, I can also level the same criticism at the more rabid among the Christian Fundamentalists. Neither do they have a monopoly on truth.

[george wythe]

I don't think you're even Catholic. I think you're a Muslim cultist.

Lame personal attacks.

You were corrected in a public forum, and you're displaying petty anger.

You posted inaccurate information about the Catechism, and in a public forum, you will be corrected.

Your statement:

Catechism's are left to the individual diocese's to publish and subject to many of the whims of American liberal Bishops.

was wrong.

The Catholic Church Catechism comes directly from the Vatican.

Catholic Church Catechism

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Don't be a sore loser in an internet argument. I have been corrected before on other matters, and I have not descended into ineffectual innuendos.

[quadrant]

Dear Truthandlife:

As a Christian and one whose faith tends toward Biblical literalism, I have no problem acknowledging that Muslims, Jews, and Christians worship the same God.
The worship of the same God is what makes Islam deceptive, dangerous, and demonic.
If - to take an extreme example - Mohammed had proclaimed that God descended from heaven and landed at the top of the great pyramid, from there He traveled Arabia to give the Koran to Mohammed, and fianlly He went to the top of Mount Sinai where He resides in glory, everyone whould consider the story a fantastic hoax.
But Mohammed made no such fantastic claim. He took the Jewish and Christian Scriptures and twisted them in such a way as to make his version sound plausible but to deny and negate the first coming of Messiah, which is the end toward which the Bible, especially the Old Testament, points.
Heresy is not the spinning of a fantastic yarn, but the twisting of the Truth ever so slightly - but fatally - so as to fool the unwary, the guilible, those unsatisfied with the Truth, or those of little faith.
If President Bush makes such statements, they reflect on the requirements of the Presidency, not on his personal faith.
Be glad George W. Bush is President.
If Bill Clinton were still in the White House, he would say nothing of God, reflecting a lack of belief in anything except Bill Clinton.
If Al Gore had been elected, you'd get such a convoluted descrition of a divinity that he/she/it would be unrecognizable by even the most learned theologians.

[unspun]

...because unless the Holy Spirit empowers and enlightens you to say Jesus is Lord, You cannot do it by your own knowledge.

O where are those who's hearts He may touch?

[Commie Basher]

The new catechism you speak of has ignored the words of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself: "If you deny me before men, I will deny you before the Father in Heaven" Matthew 10 If someone denies Jesus Christ is God then Jesus Christ denies that person before the Father. Hence Muslims who deny Jesus Christ is God, if they do not come to believe in Him, are not worshipping God despite the catechism unless you exalt it above God.

Yes, but how does one affirm Christ? I once heard the late Fr. Malachi Martin on the Art Bell Show state that when one does Good Works, then one accepts and affirms Christ, even if one doesn't know it. I think that's what known as the Good Works Doctrine in Catholicism.

So a Muslim or a Jew, or even an atheist, is accepting Christ in deed (if not words) whenever he does Good Works. And so they've not denied Christ. Well, that's the theory.

[Commie Basher]

There are good and bad people in every religion, in every group, in every walk of life. But the difference with Islam is in the doctrine itself.

You can find bad doctrine in the Bible too. Read Exodus ("Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." or "If a child should curse his mother or his father, then that child shall surely die.") or Leviticus. Or the Hebrew attack on the innocent Canaanites, justified because God said so.

Most old religions have a violent past, in history and doctrine. Religion, like man, evolves.

[Old Fud]

PRESIDENT BUSH: I do say that freedom is the Almighty's gift to every person. I also condition it by saying freedom is not America's gift to the world. It's much greater than that, of course. And I believe we worship the same God.

Jr. can believe any cotton pickin' thing he wants to, but he nevertheless is dead wrong. The problem with Jr. is the stuff he says (affirmative action, Kwanza, Ramadan, "Jesus as philosopher") that he outta have the sense to SHUT UP about. He obviously can't tackle certain things, so why does he feel compelled to opine about them?

[El Cid]

Hi Normy,

Re: Post 582
The -God Man- are your words not the Fathers. The Father upheld his righteous servant.

True, the phrase "God Man" is nowhere to be found in the Bible, however we are told that 'God was manifest in the flesh' (1st Timothy 3:16); as well as the famous passage of Isaiah 7:14, 'Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.' Immanuel being interpreted: 'God with us'.
So if you'd have prefered that I used 'God manifest in the flesh' or 'God with us', rather than "God man", I'm OK with that.

Isa 42:1 the Father says through the prophet Isaiah Behold my servant whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgement to the Gentiles. What you are saying makes it easy for us to have an excuse not to be like Jesus. Jesus was not supernatural, he was flesh,blood, bone, a man. The difference between him and us is he is obedient to the Father and we are not, but as we change and become perfected we will walk just like Jesus did on the earth but we will do greater things because he has gone to the Father.

uh...I guess you have a selected reading of the Bible...I just referenced a couple of verses that highlighted the Lord's divinity - and there are many others. Yes, Jesus was flesh - and only the anti-christs will deny that - however He is also wholy God as well. Here's a couple more verses
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.

Regarding your other point - No, I don't wear 'WWJD' wrist-bands because I'm not going to be walking on water, nor restoring sight to the blind, nor curing lepers, nor raising the dead, nor stopping gales in their tracks with a simple word. Does that release me from following His Commandments? Of course not. If we love Him, we will follow His Word. But don't deceive yourself that one can walk a sin-free life. We will stumble, but we have a Mediator sitting at the right hand of God to defend us, and we have the Comforter here on earth to witness with our spirit and pick us up when we falter.

[Dr Warmoose]

They all claim to be Christian, but they are out to take advantage of everyone they can. Don't tell me that just claiming to be Christian is sufficient.

Uh, that was my point. But glad to see that you are onboard!. In fact, this observation is true even when removing the "take advantage of everyone" clause.

The American Religion (Neo-Christianity) promotes the "free-will" theory of something called Christianity, where they say that being a Christian is a deliberate and willing choice. Because it is allegedly "voluntary", then those monsters you listed can claim they are Christian, and those in the American Religion will have to believe their claims. Of course, all kinds of excuses will be made for their behavior, but never will anyone say that they are reprobate.

It is in light of the [false] teachings of the modern day "Christian" church where I can see why the world would see little difference in the three monotheisms. I would call many of those who make the claim, agent provocateurs.