libertarians Fight Patriot Act

Newsday ^ | November 18, 2003 | Tom Brune

[Anthem]

Washington - Nevada conservative activist Janine Hansen is the first to say she is no Democrat or liberal, but she also complains the Bush administration has gone too far in eroding privacy and civil liberties with the Patriot Act and other anti-terrorism measures.

Hansen, president of the anti-feminist Nevada Eagle Forum, backed up her complaint Thursday in Reno by stepping forward as a featured speaker at a three-city announcement launching the Nevada Campaign to Defeat the Patriot Act.

[ServesURight]

Libertarian Party is a joke.

[Dr. Marten]

It's not about knowing what rights have been violated, it's about not knowing what rights have been violated.

From a brief review of the knee-jerk comments on this thread, I can tell that most have no idea as to what provisions of the "Patriot Act" people are against.

I envision a picture of Uncle Sam spoon feeding most of you.

[dighton]

"Jackbooted Thugs Smash Phonebooth, Destroy LP Convention"

[Badray]

In your willingness to overlook this extension of power by the feds, you neglect to consider the absolute antipathy that the government has (and so many Americans have) for our 2nd Amendment rights. Recovering lost ground may not be as easy (or impossible) when we are disarmed in the name of safety.

I haven't read the act yet either. I'm not saying that it is all bad and many of my concerns have been allayed. But we should still be cautious. There is too much at stake.

I despise the cynical PATRIOT name itself and I mistrust most things that the government does with such speed as this was pushed through Congress.

All the terrorists can do is kill us. There are fates worse than death.

[Prime Choice]

Spare me. I've had it up to the gills with this sanctimonious focusing on the Patriot Act as if it's the sole and largest threat to our Constitutional Rights.

Hell, anyone with half a brain knows damned well that our core liberties have been under attack for decades. It didn't start with the Patriot Act, nor was it scarcely exacerbated by the Patriot Act.

Like I said, if anyone wants to start championing our rights, let them start a REAL fight for the ONLY right that safeguards all our other rights. But this business about whining first and foremost about the Patriot Act isn't just annoying...it's nothing but whoring for sympathy.

To hell with that. Try undoing the decades-long assault on our rights. THEN worry about undoing the Patriot Act.

[Fred Mertz]

Thanks for the breath of fresh air, Badray.

[Prime Choice]

Libertarian Party is a joke.

And it doesn't even have a decent punchline.

[Prime Choice]

I envision a picture of Uncle Sam spoon feeding most of you.

I envision you only fighting for rights when it's trendy.

Tell me, how much effort -- SERIOUS EFFORT -- have you put into trying to roll back the infringement on Second Amendment Rights that have occurred over the past 40 years?

[MayDay72]

...BUMP...

[Prime Choice]

In your willingness to overlook this extension of power by the feds, you neglect to consider the absolute antipathy that the government has (and so many Americans have) for our 2nd Amendment rights. Recovering lost ground may not be as easy (or impossible) when we are disarmed in the name of safety.

Thanks, Badray. That's precisely what I've been saying all along.

I can point to several concrete infringements that the "Assault Weapons Ban" has had on my Second Amendment Rights. Can anyone who's bellyaching about the Patriot Act point to any such concrete examples of how their rights have been infringed by PATRIOT?

I doubt it.

[Dr. Marten]

"Hell, anyone with half a brain knows damned well that our core liberties have been under attack for decades. It didn't start with the Patriot Act, nor was it scarcely exacerbated by the Patriot Act."

I could not agree with you more.

Every treaty we sign with the UN is a direct assault on our liberties.

IMHO, the patriot act was nothing more than a government knee-jerk reaction to 9/11/01. A closer look at the Patriot Act would reveal just what you stated above, a continuation of assault on our liberties from years past.

[Prime Choice]

I could not agree with you more.

Every treaty we sign with the UN is a direct assault on our liberties.

So here's a counter-proposal: let's undo the entirety of the anti-Second Amendment laws and then we'll actually have some teeth to let the politicians know that We The People won't tolerate further abrogation of our rights.

When you get down to it, a government that's disarmed the people only honors the people's rights at its own pleasure.

...But when the populace is armed, the government moves against their liberties strictly at its own peril.

[gooleyman]

To hell with that. Try undoing the decades-long assault on our rights. THEN worry about undoing the Patriot Act.

-----

Amen Prime Choice. We must first be alive. The terrorists would have us all dead. Then who would be left to challenge the taking of our rights. My understanding, not having read chapter and verse, is that law enforcement's hands were tied by dumb rules which kept the terrorists one step ahead of them at every turn. Some of the provisions I know of gave law enforcement an advantage over the terrorists. You can't expect to catch a terrorist if you have to tell him weeks in advance that you're coming after him.

The DemocRATS have slowly taken away our rights even without a 9/11 to fight for. Where were these people when that was going on. Like someone said above, THIS IS WAR. And a war we can't afford to lose. I, for one, would rather the terrorists have the death part and I'll keep the life part for myself.

The Patriot Act at least has sunset clauses that return some things back to the way they were. Where are the sunset clauses for the laws passed over the past 60 years? Where's the outrage over that?

[MEG33]

What provisions are you against?

[Dr. Marten]

Again, I completely agree with you!

"When you get down to it, a government that's disarmed the people only honors the people's rights at its own pleasure."

I'll take that a step further.

Only a government that fears the people it governs would enact laws to disarm them.

Teaties = loss of sovereignty
gun control = removes the most important of the checks and balances provided by the Constitution and its accompanying Bill of Rights.

[Dr. Marten]

Which ones are you not against?

[Prime Choice]

Which ones are you not against?

Let's take this out of the abstract here.

I can enumerate several concrete infringements that the "Assault Weapons Ban" and other anti-Second Amendment laws have had on my Second Amendment Rights.

Can you point out any such concrete examples of how your rights have been infringed by the Patriot Act?

[MEG33]

I wasn't the one complaining..It is the ones who say our rights are being threatenend who need to explain which rights have been abridged.

[gooleyman]

You can get a pdf formatted Patriot Act text from http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/

The U.S. Code can be viewed and downloaded from http://uscode.house.gov/download.htm

The Patriot Act simply changed the U.S. Code. It's all there. Let's all do a little homework and see what the darned thing really says and does and quit relying on commentators and politicians who get rich and elected off of our infighting.

Gotta Go. Good Night.

[Dolphy]

The Patriot Act at least has sunset clauses that return some things back to the way they were

Exactly. The Patriot Act, though passed in haste, has many provisions that were long overdue. One need only look at the first World Trade Center attack and how it was handled, or mishandled, by the federal government. I have no doubt that there are things wrong in the Patriot Act but where is the evidence of the widespread choking of our civil liberties?