Local radicals are tied to blasts [in Turkey]

Washington Times ^ | Wednesday, November 19, 2003 | By Suzan Fraser

[JohnHuang2]

ISTANBUL

[JohnHuang2]

Wednesday, November 19, 2003

Quote of the Day by South40

[aristotleman]

PING!

[Mortimer Snavely]

"... a Saudi cleric identified as Abu Musab..... is believed to have crossed into Iran since the Taliban regime was ousted from Afghanistan. "

MIT job opportunity.     

[aristotleman]

"Operation Catch the Mullah".

Is MIT good at covert action? I don't think the Iranian government takes kindly to intruders meddling with their business. On the other hand, the turkish agents can find hiding places amongst friendly iranian opposition groups. In fact that's a far better way to infiltrate al-Qaeda in Iran than sending the CIA.

Why don't the governments of the US and Turkey figure it out? Politics are so slow.

[Mortimer Snavely]

Why don't the governments of the US and Turkey figure it out? Politics are so slow.

===================

Because the President has offered no unambiguous refutation of Islam, instead tries to assuage Islamists by eating iftar dinner with Islamists at the White House, we can see that the President hasn't any idea of what people who want to make the Sharia global law have in mind for the rest of us. There is no evidence that the White House considers the thoughts of Muslims who want to reject the viciously anti-rationalistic element that dominates Islamist thought. CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) has seen to that. They dominate the discussion of Islam.

Bush actually imagines that by being pleasant to everyone, problems will go away because in the end everyone just wants to get along. This is pure political pandering. It's a twelve year old Sunday school student's view of the world. It is a mistaken notion, which has little to do with American ideology and everything to do with trying to be all things to all people.

At the same time in Turkish popular politics there has been a definite trend in the same direction. Thankfully, the Turkish Officer Corps' unambiguous revulsion of the AKP's Islamist themes has been an obstacle to greater Islamist gains there.

The trouble is that in both the American and the Turkish popular mind, affability has replaced analysis and ideological rigor. The idea of intellectually engaging and confronting Islam is absent in both countries, as far as I can see.

Being a pleasant TV personality, and being popular and fun at parties is the problem. Being an irascible crank and not taking any guff off of anyone is the solution.

This requires a self confidence which arises from study, knowledge, and the absolute commitment that the ideas which further human freedom are more important than what others think of you. Jefferson, Lincoln, and Reagan had it. Atatürk, Inönü, and Özal had it. Bush and Erdogan don't.

[aristotleman]

Thank you. Your analysis is right to the point.

Discussion of Religion is an international taboo, nowadays, largely because of the stigma associated with the colonialists, Ottoman empire rule, slave trade, and the crusades. The interpretation of these historical events has led modern leaders into a quagmire of politically correct avoidance of criticism of religion in previously opressed countries.

I am counting on Turkey's leadership in the future, to define the nature of Islam for the arab world. A powerful political figure, together with an influencial religious figure, must issue a statement defining radical islam, pure islam, and the right way to worship.

Part of the problem is that Islam does not have a hierarchical structure like a Papacy, therefore each segmant is free to interpret the word of the Koran without central control. It is inevitable that factions of extremism will use the ignorance of their followers against the rest of the world, and consequently against innocent muslims.

I don't expect western leaders to stop pandering to Islamists. Their upbringing and political training works against them. It is up to Turkey's sanity and natural positioning as a moderate nation of history and leadership to challenge Islam. I wholly believe this.

The extremists have started making mistakes, because of their insanity. The bombings in Saudi Arabia as well as in Istanbul, show a disregard for muslim life that will not go unnoticed. Arab intellectuals and moderate clerics must see where this is leading. They need to step up to the plate, communicate with Turkey, and draft a new middle east. They must see beyond the "threat" from Israel, the anti-west propaganda, and to realize that the existence of their religion is in great peril.

If terrorists strike America with WMDs repeatedly, the wrath that will be unleashed will destroy the whole middle east, 10-20 years from now.

It is crucial that Turkey takes action

[Mortimer Snavely]

Comments, anyone?

[Mortimer Snavely]

You still around, abi?

[a_Turk]

There's a good Turkish translation of the Koran available by Yasar Nuri Ozturk..

[Mortimer Snavely]

I've seen Turkish language Korans for sale at the Kapali Çarsi. From what I understand of Wahabbism and other Islamist thought, isn't that more or less blasphemy?

[Mortimer Snavely]

"....it is strictly forbidden in Islam to change anything or even speculate about it..."

Greetings, fellow "heathen."

=====================

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear. You will naturally examine first the religion of your own country. Read the bible then, as you would read Livy or Tacitus."
-- Thomas Jefferson, author of The Declaration of Independence, and later 3rd President of the USA, in a letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787

======================

Our two great countries had some pretty sharp Founding Fathers. Other people, critical of our nations, are generally from lesser places without the Law or Moral Philosophy, and are primarily motivated by jealousy.

[Mortimer Snavely]

"A powerful political figure, together with an influencial religious figure, must issue a statement defining radical islam, pure islam, and the right way to worship."

If there was some highly visible meeting between General Ozkok and General Mushareff of Pakistan, I think that bin Laden wanna-be's and other murderous buffoons would sit up and take notice.

[aristotleman]

Exactly. What's taking them so long? Haven't they studied Ataturk in their youth? Neither of them have his vision, but someone needs to start, the visionaries always come in the second generation. Ataturk was a product of visionaries before him, who did not have his capacities, but prepared the ground for him.

BTW if the Koran in turkish is blasphemy (do you say harram?), haven't the wahhabis taken notice?

[Mortimer Snavely]

"What's taking them so long?"

Given the problems they have to deal with, I think that the prevailing attitude is "one bleeding ulcer at a time."

[Mortimer Snavely]

Turk2 used to post some really good stuff around here.

"Turkey can be very influential in Pakistan if it can gain greater political and financial power. There is huge sympathy for Turks among Pakistanis. They believe that we would never sell them out and we believe likewise about them. When the Arabs were stabbing us in the back in WWI they stood by us to the extent of sending their own jewelry to finance the Turkish war effort. They were the only ones that respected us when we had the Caliphate. Their current president speaks fluent Turkish and has profound sympathy for Ataturk.

If only we could suppress the Saudi efforts at Arabizing these people through fundamentalist Islam with extensive financial support to increase welfare and improve their eductational system, we could win this nation back to the civilized world. The country has been struck by decades of poverty, corruption and political chaos. Tens of thousands of people are going to religious schools funded by Wahhabi/Saudi foundations every year because they have no secular schools to go to. If we can bring the rule of secular law into the country and display its benefits, we can show people the right way.

If American money that has been funneled into Saudi Arabia and Egypt over the last two decades had been directed to Pakistan you would have been talking about a significantly different Pakistan."
-- Turk2

If you are still lurking, my friend, please drop us a line!