Symantec Replies RE: Pro Gun Censorship

BattleFlag

[BattleFlag]

As my Norton Antivirus protection is expiring soon, I wanted to get the latest with regard to the fact that their "net nanny" internet "security" software by default screens out pro 2nd Amendment, Pro Gun webites while leaving anti gun sites alone.

I went to their website looking for an email address to write to but all they have is a web form so I don't have the original message I sent.

But here is their reply;

Hello Mr. BattleFlag,

The Parental Control feature in Norton Internet Security is a tool that parents can use to make choices about the Web sites their children visit. We do not tell parents which websites their children should or should not view. Rather, we offer parents a tool to make that choice for themselves. The Parental Control feature includes a number of categories of websites that parents can decide to allow or filter. These categories include a wide range of topics including pornography, news, gambling, travel, illegal drugs, and humor. One of the categories is weapons. Any websites that promote the use of weapons are included in this category. Websites that do not promote the use of weapons are not included in the category.

Let me explain how our Parental Control feature works. The Parental Control feature does not automatically get installed on a user's system when they first install Norton Internet Security. Rather, the parent must make a conscious choice to install this feature. Once Parental Control is installed, it is turned off by default. Again, the parent must choose to turn on this option.

After the feature is installed and turned on, the parent can create separate accounts for members of the family. The parent then configures these accounts by selecting which categories of websites should be filtered and which ones can be permitted. Norton Internet Security allows each account to have its own unique category list because some sites may be appropriate for teenagers but not appropriate for small children. If a child tries to access a blocked site, he or she receives a message explaining that the site is not permitted for viewing. If the parent wishes, he or she is able to allow that website to be viewed by one or all of the accounts. Also, the parent, operating in the Supervisor account, is allowed unfettered access to the Internet.

While many people advocate the possession and use of firearms, some do not. The Parental Control feature in Norton Internet Security serves as a tool that parents can use to help regulate their children's access to the Internet. The feature provides parents with complete flexibility to decide which sites are appropriate for their children and which ones they feel should be filtered. The process for adding and subtracting sites to individual filter lists is fast and easy, so parents have total control over how the feature is used.

Thank you, and if you have any further questions on this issue, please feel free to email me at PCSSymantec@symantec.com

Martha Miller
Product Communications
Global Consumer Services
Symantec Corporation
mmiller@symantec.com

Here is my reply;

Ms. Miller,

Your rationalizations are disingenuous at best. It seems that for you and your leftist ilk there are never enough ways to hide your true agenda and that is the total prohibition of the means Americans use literally millions of times per year to defend themselves and their families.

In your rhetoric you the phrase "promote the use of weapons" as though pro 2nd Amendment, pro self-defense website's only mission is to see to it that everyone has a weapon and uses it. What about "promoting the responsible, use of weapons?", what about "promoting the safe use of weapons?", what about "promoting awareness by children of what to do when they encounter weapons, specifically firearms"? Are these concepts that you believe your users should be shielded from? And please, don't say its about weapons, for you, its about guns. You start your reply by referring to "weapons" but in the last paragraph you reveal the true subject of your censorship, "...advocate the possession and use of firearms".

It is an insult to the hardworking, upstanding, law abiding Americans who choose to embrace the safe, responsible use of firearms as a means to do for themselves and their families what no one else can do, provide protection from those deadly predators and criminals who specialize in victimizing the weak that you equate the "use of weapons" with pornography, gambling and illegal drugs.

How much information about the safe and responsible use of firearms will not be seen because of your companies choices?

It is not enough for you that parents make the choice to filter pro gun websites from their family's internet experience if they see fit to do it, much the the gun owning experience itself, you believe it is your place to make that choice for them.

I am just one person but nonetheless one person whose money Symantec Corporation will never see again.

Pack Sand Symantec!

[Roughneck]

Norton has also lost my business.

[milbuf]

After reading your post, I too will not do business with them and have so notified them. Without the 2nd amendment there can not be a workable and fair 1st amendment..

Milbuf

[ElkGroveDan]

"companies" should be "company's"

Other than that, its an awesome response. Good job.

[Prime Choice]

Barvo, BattleFlag. Bravo. Well said.

[Question_Assumptions]

This doesn't sound all that unreasonable to me. They do give you a way to turn off the "weapons" category, do they not? What else does it include? Yes, you may not like the idea of censoring sites that talk about the responsible use of guns from children but I'm sure there are leftists out there that don't like the idea of censoring sites that talk about what they consider "responsible" attitudes towards sex, drugs, abortion, paganism, and homosexuality. Symantec can't be expected to please everyone.

[Prime Choice]

Barvo = Bravo.

No...I can type. Really!

I didn't know the keyboard was loaded, officer...

[fiscally_right]

Agreed, the parents can tailor their individual software, what's the problem? Parents should be the ones to teach their kids about guns, gun ownership, and gun safety anyway.

[longtermmemmory]

Does not norton also block sites about breast cancer using the same logic?

Besides should you not be able to customize the program to allow 2nd amendment sites? (like saying this is a safe cookie?)

Whoever responded to you is an idiot when it comes to public relations.

[Still Thinking]

This doesn't sound all that unreasonable to me. They do give you a way to turn off the "weapons" category, do they not? What else does it include? Yes, you may not like the idea of censoring sites that talk about the responsible use of guns from children but I'm sure there are leftists out there that don't like the idea of censoring sites that talk about what they consider "responsible" attitudes towards sex, drugs, abortion, paganism, and homosexuality. Symantec can't be expected to please everyone.

I disagree completely. What about discrimination against those of us who still believe in the constitution?? Why aren't sites run by "living constitution" anti-righters that might offend me, blocked?

[BattleFlag]

Ha, yes Dan, I am missing that "edit" button;

"In your rhetoric you the phrase" should be "In your rhetoric you use the phrase" and "do it, much the the gun owning experience itself," should be "do it, much like the gun owning experience itself,".

But the company's thing isn't a typo its a mistake I keep making...thanks for pointing it out.

[Question_Assumptions]

Are we reading the same reply that everyone else on this tread is reading?

[Edison]

I think you are looking for a bogey man where none resides. Why not attack them for blocking the porno sites that could be violation of their 1st amendment. This feature is only installed when you activate the child protections and then ALL of the child protections are installed. No gambling, no personal ads, no porn, no gun advocates. I have a setting for my kids that I regulate. Norton simply has a default of anything that anyone might find offensive.

Let's try and focus on the real bogey men like Chuck Schumer and his ilk.

Besides how would the software know if it is the NRA championing our second amendment rights or some radical islamist site advocating the shooting of the infidels.

Edison...NRA member

[Puppage]

the parents can tailor their individual software

You are COMPLETELY missing to point.Is it ok for the school to send your child home with a condom? Gee, let the parents decide if they should keep them.

[Damocles]

I'll probably be in the minority on this one, but her reply seemed well mannered and informative. I guess you took issue with the one word "promotes", but your response was way out of line IMO. Rude and over-reactionary.

She took no position of the 2nd ammenmendent, nor identified herself as an authority on gun issues. She dealt with your original question. If you want your kids to view sights screened by Norton turn off the block, some parents may not want kids to see them.

It's an innocuous product and puts the control squarely where it belongs, ON THE PARENTS!

Switch to decaf...

[Still Thinking]

I think the thing that has us all riled is that the software's default policy on gun sites is different from its policy on anti-freedom sites. If they read the minds of their customers sufficiently to determine that gun sites might be objectionable, shouldn't they also have been able to deduce that with regard to sites that propose a reduction in the amount of liberty we are "allowed"? By making one choice the default on one side of an argument and the opposite choice the default on the other side of the argument, it seems they are either intentionally taking a position, or revealing their unconscious prejudices.

[newgeezer]

No offense intended, Mr. BattleFlag, but you've probably provided that "leftist" and her "ilk" a funny story to tell for many Thanksgiving dinners to come.

[fiscally_right]

"Why aren't sites run by "living constitution" anti-righters that might offend me, blocked?"

Well I would assume that the purpose of including the 'Weapon' category with the software was not to censor second amendment sites... There are lots of sites out there that, to say the least, do not promote responsible gun ownership, and distinguishing between them probably isn't very easy. Wait I can read your mind. You're thinking "but its easy for them to distinguish between pro and anti-gun sites?." To that I don't really have an answer, but I think this is much ado about nothing. Nothing is being blocked unless you, as the parent, want it to be.

[Still Thinking]

Yes, I will admit that there are some gun-themed sites that probably should be blocked by default.