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The Irrational Atheist
WorldNetDaily ^ | 11/17/03 | Vox Day

Posted on 11/17/2003 6:02:20 AM PST by Tribune7

The idea that he is a devotee of reason seeing through the outdated superstitions of other, lesser beings is the foremost conceit of the proud atheist. This heady notion was first made popular by French intellectuals such as Voltaire and Diderot, who ushered in the so-called Age of Enlightenment.

That they also paved the way for the murderous excesses of the French Revolution and many other massacres in the name of human progress is usually considered an unfortunate coincidence by their philosophical descendants.

The atheist is without God but not without faith, for today he puts his trust in the investigative method known as science, whether he understands it or not. Since there are very few minds capable of grasping higher-level physics, let alone following their implications, and since specialization means that it is nearly impossible to keep up with the latest developments in the more esoteric fields, the atheist stands with utter confidence on an intellectual foundation comprised of things of which he knows nothing.

In fairness, he cannot be faulted for this, except when he fails to admit that he is not actually operating on reason in this regard, but is instead exercising a faith that is every bit as blind and childlike as that of the most unthinking Bible-thumping fundamentalist. Still, this is not irrational, it is only ignorance and a failure of perception.

The irrationality of the atheist can primarily be seen in his actions – and it is here that the cowardice of his intellectual convictions is also exposed. Whereas Christians and the faithful of other religions have good reason for attempting to live by the Golden Rule – they are commanded to do so – the atheist does not.

In fact, such ethics, as well as the morality that underlies them, are nothing more than man-made myth to the atheist. Nevertheless, he usually seeks to live by them when they are convenient, and there are even those, who, despite their faithlessness, do a better job of living by the tenets of religion than those who actually subscribe to them.

Still, even the most admirable of atheists is nothing more than a moral parasite, living his life based on borrowed ethics.

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


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To: BikerNYC
Because He loves me and is infinitely smarter.

And with that good night.

461 posted on 11/20/2003 8:54:15 PM PST by Tribune7 (It's not like he let his secretary drown in his car or something.)
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To: MitchellC
God created you with the purpose of doing what he says.

Why would a God who wants obedience also grant free will?
462 posted on 11/20/2003 8:56:49 PM PST by Dimensio (The only thing you feel when you take a human life is recoil. -- Frank "Earl" Jones)
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To: Dimensio
Theists must use some method to decide which absolute authority to follow. Pascal's wager may be offered by more than one Casino.
463 posted on 11/20/2003 8:59:37 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Tribune7
If there is no God why pretend there is?

To live: Atheism is a capital offense in Muslim countries, and used to be one elsewhere.

To be able to function in a 'believing' society: It used to be impossible for an atheist to testify in court

Honor, riches, power and glory: I don't need to go into details here, I hope.

464 posted on 11/20/2003 10:11:21 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: MitchellC
How does the atheist determine what is "better" a place for someone to live without a universal standard to judge according to? Why is freedom universally and objectively "better" than slavery, for instance?

In one sense there is no single universal value, like Marx believed there was: Value, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. And yet the difference between a life-affirming principle and a life-destroying principle is the difference between thriving and extinction. So my goal of a society that sustains the lives of humans as humans (as opposed to savages or slaves) is hardly something that needs to be justified. It's axiomatic, IMO. How could you begin to convince people that the goal they should be orienting their life around should be death & destruction?

465 posted on 11/20/2003 10:38:39 PM PST by jennyp (http://crevo.bestmessageboard.com)
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To: Tribune7

But even if so, Jesus plagiarized it from Rabbi Hillel:

These two great scholars born a generation or two before the beginning of the Common Era are usually discussed together and contrasted with each other, because they were contemporaries and the leaders of two opposing schools of thought (known as "houses"). The Talmud records over 300 differences of opinion between Beit Hillel (the House of Hillel) and Beit Shammai (the House of Shammai). In almost every one of these disputes, Hillel's view prevailed.

Rabbi Hillel was born to a wealthy family in Babylonia, but came to Jerusalem without the financial support of his family and supported himself as a woodcutter. It is said that he lived in such great poverty that he was sometimes unable to pay the admission fee to study Torah, and because of him that fee was abolished. He was known for his kindness, his gentleness, and his concern for humanity. One of his most famous sayings, recorded in Pirkei Avot (Ethics of the Fathers, a tractate of the Mishnah), is "If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now, when?" The Hillel organization, a network of Jewish college student organizations, is named for him.

Rabbi Shammai was an engineer, known for the strictness of his views. The Talmud tells that a gentile came to Shammai saying that he would convert to Judaism if Shammai could teach him the whole Torah in the time that he could stand on one foot. Shammai drove him away with a builder's measuring stick! Hillel, on the other hand, converted the gentile by telling him, "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary. Go and study it."


466 posted on 11/20/2003 10:44:22 PM PST by jennyp (http://crevo.bestmessageboard.com)
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To: Tribune7
If there is no God why pretend there is?

Personally, I think theism survives so tenaciously because it's much easier for most people to think about such mind-blowing questions as "why is there something instead of nothing?" or "how did my consciousness get here?" when they can reify the hard, abstract parts. And if reifying an abstraction is good & nobody ever points out to you that it's a fallacy, then why not go it one better & anthropomorphize it? If we are all here by accident why not just party on? Sex and drugs and rock & roll?

Because actions have consequences, and actions declare principles. What kind of world are you creating for you & your loved ones to live in by your actions, given that you're declaring that everyone else should act the same way in the same context as you're acting?

467 posted on 11/20/2003 11:06:09 PM PST by jennyp (http://crevo.bestmessageboard.com)
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To: Tribune7
Oops, my #466 is responding to your #398, where you said this:

"Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" is revolutionary.

468 posted on 11/20/2003 11:13:56 PM PST by jennyp (http://crevo.bestmessageboard.com)
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To: Dimensio
Atheism is only significant by virtue of the existence of theism, however the existence of theism -- and the general term to describe it -- warrants a term to describe those who are without it. A non-Christian could be a Jew, a Hindu or a Muslim. "Atheist" eliminates such ambiguity.

But it does not eliminate the ambiguity, if it needs to be eliminated in the first place. The Hindus, for example, do not believe in a deity, but no one considers them atheists? This is also true of Confucious, Shinto, and most varieties of Buddhism (which sort of says you can believe whatever you like as long as it includes reincarnation). What atheist really means is anyone who doesn't believe in anything people believe in for which there is no evidence.

As far as I'm concerned, it is a non-concept and very ambiguous.

(I am not trying to convince you, by the way. I fully understand your intention. Atheist is a useful word if the question of whether someone believes in one of the recognized deities is in question. I just think it is a mistake for people to identify themselves as "atheists." Asuperstitionist would be a better word, I think. Skeptic, rationalist, and realist are all out, because of the philosophical baggage they carry. Objectivist would be best, but unless they really are an Objecivist, which most people who call themselves that are not, they ought not use that word.)

An atheist could rightly be insulted by the idea, "atheism describes something without theism -- someone who is not a theist (lacks theism) is an atheist." To an atheist you are only saying they lack what does not exsit, which is nonsense, because everyone lacks what does not exist. To an atheist it is tantamount to saying, "you don't suffer from this particular delusion and therefore you deserve this special label to indicate that fact." If the term was meant to indicate that soundness of mind (lacking a delusion) it would be a compliment. It is ussd almost invariably with the opposite intention, and is therefore both absurd and insulting.

Hank

469 posted on 11/21/2003 4:20:22 AM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: elfman2; Dimensio
I find that such bizarrely aggressive and unsupported insults tend to say more about the accuser than the accused.

Read Paul Johnson's "Intellectuals" and look at the atheists that you know. It's one long rationalization for personal misconduct.

Or look at it another way. It's a fact that people who attend Church regularly live on average 7 years longer than those who don't. Now this can be explained in one of two ways. Either there is a God and He generally rewards those who seek Him with longer lives, or Churchgoers are healthier because they refrain from unhealthy vices; i.e., they generally lead more virtuous lives.

470 posted on 11/21/2003 4:57:34 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan
"look at the atheists that you know. It's one long rationalization for personal misconduct."

The same asinine remark has been said of Christians "excusing" personal misconduct. People frequently get a little too exited when they first learn to spot hypocrisy and over generalize it to all members of competing ideologies.

"people who attend Church regularly live on average 7 years longer than those who don't. Now this can be explained in one of two ways."

I think the starts that I heard on Dr. Larua were regarding something more general than Church attendance, something along the lines of a strong believe system. That does not require a theological base.

471 posted on 11/21/2003 5:27:21 AM PST by elfman2
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To: Hank Kerchief
" What atheist really means is anyone who doesn't believe in anything people believe in for which there is no evidence. "

Fortunately there is a controlling “legal” authority on this.

472 posted on 11/21/2003 5:34:33 AM PST by elfman2
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P L A C E M A R K E R
473 posted on 11/21/2003 8:08:10 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: jennyp
And if Rabbi Hillel and Rabbi Shammai managed to rise from the dead, they might have gotton credit for the Golden Rule.

The Rule -- especially if we agree as to it's mathematical backing -- precedes the Lord's walk on earth. There were smart and wise people who understood this B.C. But it did not become the cultural foundation until Christ.

The Old Testament's rule was eye for an eye.

474 posted on 11/21/2003 8:36:05 AM PST by Tribune7 (It's not like he let his secretary drown in his car or something.)
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To: jennyp
Personally, I think theism survives so tenaciously because it's much easier for most people

Jenny, theism survives because it is more rational. It requires much more faith -- not reason -- to be an atheist than to believe in a creator.

And don't discount personal experience. Many, many people -- including me -- have felt the touch of God.

You can claim we are delusional -- albeit rationalizing why us have done rather significant things after this conversion. Or you can accept that there is something to it.

475 posted on 11/21/2003 8:47:14 AM PST by Tribune7 (It's not like he let his secretary drown in his car or something.)
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To: Hank Kerchief
The Hindus, for example, do not believe in a deity

The Hindus do believe in a deity -- some argue several -- although the Hindus insist it is just one.

476 posted on 11/21/2003 8:49:10 AM PST by Tribune7 (It's not like he let his secretary drown in his car or something.)
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To: Tribune7
And if Rabbi Hillel and Rabbi Shammai managed to rise from the dead, they might have gotton credit for the Golden Rule.

Well, true, no one has claimed that they rose from the dead. Not that you've demonstrated that anyone else has ever risen from the dead either...
477 posted on 11/21/2003 10:13:52 AM PST by Dimensio (The only thing you feel when you take a human life is recoil. -- Frank "Earl" Jones)
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To: Tribune7
It requires much more faith -- not reason -- to be an atheist than to believe in a creator.

Justify this statement.

Many, many people -- including me -- have felt the touch of God.

I can get similar stories from many Hindus. I don't know why I should believe you and not them.
478 posted on 11/21/2003 10:14:51 AM PST by Dimensio (The only thing you feel when you take a human life is recoil. -- Frank "Earl" Jones)
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To: Tribune7; jennyp; betty boop; Phaedrus
Er, if you don't mind, I'd like to add my "me, too" to your statement:

Many, many people -- including me -- have felt the touch of God.

I also agree that Christian faith is most rational!

IMHO, the metaphysical naturalist (atheist) claim to being rational rests on the worldview that: "all that there is" is all that exists in nature.

That worldview is not shared by many (if not most) physicists and mathematicians - the most epistemologically zealous of all the disciplines. It is also not shared by most philosophers and the general public.

479 posted on 11/21/2003 10:29:18 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Dimensio; Tribune7
Jumping in… I suspect that this "touch of God” is Tribune7's proof of God, the premise behind his claim that theism is more rational.
480 posted on 11/21/2003 10:39:39 AM PST by elfman2
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