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The Irrational Atheist
WorldNetDaily ^ | 11/17/03 | Vox Day

Posted on 11/17/2003 6:02:20 AM PST by Tribune7

The idea that he is a devotee of reason seeing through the outdated superstitions of other, lesser beings is the foremost conceit of the proud atheist. This heady notion was first made popular by French intellectuals such as Voltaire and Diderot, who ushered in the so-called Age of Enlightenment.

That they also paved the way for the murderous excesses of the French Revolution and many other massacres in the name of human progress is usually considered an unfortunate coincidence by their philosophical descendants.

The atheist is without God but not without faith, for today he puts his trust in the investigative method known as science, whether he understands it or not. Since there are very few minds capable of grasping higher-level physics, let alone following their implications, and since specialization means that it is nearly impossible to keep up with the latest developments in the more esoteric fields, the atheist stands with utter confidence on an intellectual foundation comprised of things of which he knows nothing.

In fairness, he cannot be faulted for this, except when he fails to admit that he is not actually operating on reason in this regard, but is instead exercising a faith that is every bit as blind and childlike as that of the most unthinking Bible-thumping fundamentalist. Still, this is not irrational, it is only ignorance and a failure of perception.

The irrationality of the atheist can primarily be seen in his actions – and it is here that the cowardice of his intellectual convictions is also exposed. Whereas Christians and the faithful of other religions have good reason for attempting to live by the Golden Rule – they are commanded to do so – the atheist does not.

In fact, such ethics, as well as the morality that underlies them, are nothing more than man-made myth to the atheist. Nevertheless, he usually seeks to live by them when they are convenient, and there are even those, who, despite their faithlessness, do a better job of living by the tenets of religion than those who actually subscribe to them.

Still, even the most admirable of atheists is nothing more than a moral parasite, living his life based on borrowed ethics.

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


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To: MitchellC
Sure it can. Many athiests apply their moral code to others. Why? Because they prefer to do it. Why do theists apply their moral code to others? Because they prefer to do it. Each likes a moral code applied to others more than a moral code that is only applied to themsleves.
421 posted on 11/20/2003 6:46:15 PM PST by BikerNYC
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To: Tribune7
You are saying, then, that you prefer a moral code that leads to physical pleasure more than one that leads to physical pain. That is fine, but I think there are many times when others might say the right thing to do is the painful thing to do.

Why should we do that which leads to physical pleasure in the afterlife?
422 posted on 11/20/2003 6:49:34 PM PST by BikerNYC
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To: BikerNYC
You are saying, then, that you prefer a moral code that leads to physical pleasure more than one that leads to physical pain.

No. How do you figure that?

423 posted on 11/20/2003 6:53:14 PM PST by Tribune7 (It's not like he let his secretary drown in his car or something.)
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To: MitchellC
You illustrate my point - that all atheism is left to deal in is a relativism based on personal desires, with no justification for applying any moral code to the whole of humanity.

There is justification. It's just based upon relative principles that don't work well when you're face with opposition.

Then again, theists are the same way. They just think that they've found an absolute authority.
424 posted on 11/20/2003 6:53:48 PM PST by Dimensio (The only thing you feel when you take a human life is recoil. -- Frank "Earl" Jones)
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To: Tribune7
Then why should I care if I have to account to anyone?
425 posted on 11/20/2003 6:54:15 PM PST by BikerNYC
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To: PatrickHenry
"My question is whether God had any choice in the creation of the Universe"

Here's a cite for it: Tom Parker

426 posted on 11/20/2003 7:02:39 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: BikerNYC
Then why should I care if I have to account to anyone?

That may be the dumbest question to be asked on this thread.

You don't know why you should care about being accountable? Because you are accountable.

If you get drunk and drive and hit someone with your car, you will face a policeman from whom you can't run, and a judge who will put you in jail. Do I have to explain why you should care about avoiding this? Maybe so. As the thread says, atheists are irrational.

You will be less happy being in jail than free. So don't drink, drive and harm someone.

Or are you claiming that the pursuit of pointless pain should somehow trump obedience to the law?

427 posted on 11/20/2003 7:12:25 PM PST by Tribune7 (It's not like he let his secretary drown in his car or something.)
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To: Tribune7
If you get drunk and drive and hit someone with your car, you will face a policeman from whom you can't run, and a judge who will put you in jail.

In other words, we should obey God because we do not desire to be punished, right? The traditional Christian view of 'punishment' by the authority figure known as "God" involves torment, thus your motivation for obeying this God is borne from a desire to avoid pain.

Which I think was BikerNYC's point all along, but I'll let BikerNYC make the final call on that.
428 posted on 11/20/2003 7:17:08 PM PST by Dimensio (The only thing you feel when you take a human life is recoil. -- Frank "Earl" Jones)
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To: Tribune7
Then you do think that you should do what leads to physical pleasure. If I don't do what God says, I will be punished. I should do what I have to do to avoid punishment.

That sounds like the moral code of a two-year-old
429 posted on 11/20/2003 7:19:34 PM PST by BikerNYC
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To: Virginia-American
Ah. You were right. It was Einstein. Thank you.
430 posted on 11/20/2003 7:20:24 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: Dimensio
In other words, we should obey God because we do not desire to be punished, right?

You should obey God for a lot of reasons, the first of which is that He loves you. But before you get to those reasons, the first question you must answer is "does God exist?"

And if your answer is no, then why do you care about the rationale for obeying God?

God exists, however, and deep inside everyone knows it.

431 posted on 11/20/2003 7:22:35 PM PST by Tribune7 (It's not like he let his secretary drown in his car or something.)
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To: BikerNYC
Why do theists apply their moral code to others? Because they prefer to do it.

According to the theist's moral code, it is often likely more than a preference; it is part of his very purpose in this existence. It is by his purpose in this existence, as he understands it, that he has a directive to live by the code. Because an atheist applies his personal code of conduct to others does not mean that he had a universal directive to do so.

Choosing a code of conduct is not like picking out a favorite flavor of ice cream. If a person believes there is no God, then the person comes up with a code that he somehow thinks accomodates that belief. But if a person believes that Jesus was an actual historical figure and that the claims made about him are correct, i.e. that the Bible as we know it today contains historically accurate information, then that person will be compelled to accept the moral code promulgated by the Bible as being true, regardless of whether or not that person breaks some of the code. If the person is a drunkard, who likes getting tanked, yet believes what the Bible says, then his belief system leaves him with a dilemma: stop doing what you like in favor of doing the thing he is convinced is right; or turn his back on what he believes to be true and do what he is convinced is wrong. I know of no comparable dilemma that the amoral person has. Nothing is truly right or wrong in any higher sense, so even if he breaks his own code, it's all the same as choosing another flavor of ice cream.

432 posted on 11/20/2003 7:29:59 PM PST by MitchellC
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To: BikerNYC
The question was "why should I care if I have to account to anyone?"

That was a dumb question.

If I don't do what God says, I will be punished. I should do what I have to do to avoid punishment.

That's like saying a driver with a trailer needing 13-foot clearance ignores a sign saying 12-foot clearance and is "punished" when he gets stuck. Why ignore the sign?

433 posted on 11/20/2003 7:37:32 PM PST by Tribune7 (It's not like he let his secretary drown in his car or something.)
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To: Dimensio
we should obey God because we do not desire to be punished, right?

We should obey God because we are convinced that that is the purpose of our existence.

434 posted on 11/20/2003 7:37:50 PM PST by MitchellC
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To: whattajoke
You all forget that Judaism existed long before Christ. Perhaps some of you believe that G-d gave Moses the Ten Commandments a week before Christ appeared on the scene.

So many of our laws and beliefs in moral right and good descend from Judeo-Christian teachings. It is the basis of our constitution. Without that moral gyroscope we would be a wretched society. Who's to say that without Judeo-Christian values that we would still be a moral and good society? I believe this because there's something in my subconscious which affirms this. That subconscious is what survives when the body dies and withers away to dust. I believe this because no atheist has been able to convince me otherwise.

And who is more right: the atheist who attempts to impose his way of life on others (ie, lawsuits filed for the alleged violations of church and state)or the Christian who at least tries to explain his beliefs without imposing them on anyone else? Last time I looked there were no Christians filing lawsuits for someone imposing their atheistic ways on them.
435 posted on 11/20/2003 7:40:54 PM PST by jaugust ("You have the mind of a four year-old boy and he's probably glad he got rid of it". ---Groucho!)
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To: Tribune7
That's like saying a driver with a trailer needing 13-foot clearance ignores a sign saying 12-foot clearance and is "punished" when he gets stuck. Why ignore the sign?

Because if you stop, you won't knock the guy off that is on the top of your truck.

There are always choices. Why prefer some more than others?
436 posted on 11/20/2003 7:47:24 PM PST by BikerNYC
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To: Tribune7
God exists, however, and deep inside everyone knows it.

Huh? How can you claim to know what everyone knows?

I'm sure there are plenty of people who say "God doesn't exist, and deep inside eveyone knows it".

In fact, one could argue that obsessive scripture-reading and prayer, Sunday schools and services, revivals, etc, etc are evidence that deep down, the 'believers' realize they're living a lie, and will go to any lengths to hide from this fact: surrounding themselves like-minded people, trying to convert others, and if that fails, silencing them, often permanently.

but no matter how hard they try, how many times they say "I believe, I believe", that little voice of conscience just won't shut up.

437 posted on 11/20/2003 7:49:42 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: Tribune7
You should obey God for a lot of reasons, the first of which is that He loves you.

I was merely commenting on the only possibly inference that I could derive from your analogy. Further, someone "loving me" is not sufficient reason for me to do as they say, as it is entierly possible for someone to love me yet still give me bad advice. I know that you don't believe this true in the case of the God that you claim exists, I'm just pointing out a fault in your rationale.

But before you get to those reasons, the first question you must answer is "does God exist?" And if your answer is no, then why do you care about the rationale for obeying God?

I don't. This discussion is purely academic.

God exists, however, and deep inside everyone knows it.

Argument from "I just know that it's so".
438 posted on 11/20/2003 8:04:39 PM PST by Dimensio (The only thing you feel when you take a human life is recoil. -- Frank "Earl" Jones)
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To: BikerNYC
There are always choices. Why prefer some more than others?

What is this? Dumb question night? Look at the example you provided. Should the default be ignore the warning sign because there might be a hijacker on the roof? You're driving along some state highway and you see an old, low railroad bridge and you say to yourself "Hmmm, better floor it. Might be a hijacker on the roof."

If the answer is "yes" return to the adjective in the title of the thread.

439 posted on 11/20/2003 8:06:22 PM PST by Tribune7 (It's not like he let his secretary drown in his car or something.)
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To: Virginia-American
How can you claim to know what everyone knows?

The freedom of the internet :-)

In fact, one could argue that obsessive scripture-reading and prayer, Sunday schools and services, revivals, etc, etc are evidence that deep down, the 'believers' realize they're living a lie, and will go to any lengths to hide from this fact: surrounding themselves like-minded people, trying to convert others, and if that fails, silencing them, often permanently.

Rather illogical. If there is no God why pretend there is? If we are all here by accident why not just party on? Sex and drugs and rock & roll?

440 posted on 11/20/2003 8:15:41 PM PST by Tribune7 (It's not like he let his secretary drown in his car or something.)
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