Spain Forced To Face Past 'Evil' Of Expelling Moors

The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 11-15-2003 | Isambard Wilkinson

[polemikos]

together in a harmonious pursuit of knowledge with only the odd massacre and purge.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

[EggsAckley]

Good post.

[LibWhacker]

. . . the Muslims' expulsion "was an evil, but a necessary evil, because it was better than the existence and growth within the Spanish state of a foreign and hostile people".

Hate to argue with the great man, but there is nothing evil about expelling savages to save your country from being subjugated by them. Nothing evil at all.

[steplock]

MOORS = MUSLIMS ? No?

Islam is the religion of 'peace". How many years before the Spaniards managed to recover their own country from the INVADING muslims?

A good friend of mine from the mid east told me ... the Moors were never driven out ... they simply faded into the country.

NOW they are coming back out!

.

[blam]

"Hate to argue with the great man, but there is nothing evil about expelling savages to save your country from being subjugated by them. Nothing evil at all."

The Basque were the 'original' settlers. They were already there when everyone else arrived.

[Cicero]

When foreigners invade your country, kill most of the inhabitants, enslave many of the rest, and drive the last survivors into the mountains where you control only a few square miles of territory, you are entitled to fight back.

The Spanish fought back against the Muslim invaders for almost 900 years. They finally won, after undergoing incredible hardships and sufferings.

It's the only known instance in history of a people reconquering their land after a Muslim invasion. Europe would not exist if they had failed.

[BenLurkin]

They have got to be kidding.

[RightWhale]

Once Baghdad fell to the Mongols, Spain was the remaining Muslim center. The Muslims were much weakened by losing the East, and they could not hold on in Spain. 1492 was a big year for Spain, got the hat trick and remained a world power until 1588. The end.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

21st century, part two.

to be continued........

[Coeur de Lion]

The Spaniards spent 800 years expelling these foreign invaders. Invaders who even though they made great contributions, still reduced both Jew and Christian to a "second class" citizenship. One might easily understand why an animus still exist!

In 1492 those Jews and Muslims who weren't willing to convert to Christianity were expelled. That doesn't seem to me to be so unreasonable a solution, given that, in that time, one's national identity was closely tied to one's religious faith.

[pierrem15]

It's the only known instance in history of a people reconquering their land after a Muslim invasion

Perhaps with the qualification of no major outside assistance, otherwise you'd have to include the Hungarians, Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanians and Greeks.

[muawiyah]

Sorry to disappoint you, but the "native Spaniards" did not drive invading North Africans out of their country - not in 100 years, not in 900 years!

Galicia in the NW served as a launchpad for an invading Cornish army to begin an entirely different Conquest.

Substantial numbers of French knights adhered to the cause of Carvajal, Castile and Leone over the several centuries it took to achieve dominance, but the "native" people in the South did nothing other than become good Moslems!

Then, as the Reconquista was wrapped up, most of the Moslems and most of the Jews then in Spain who had not already become Christians, did so.

There really wasn't any mass explulsion of any kind. People were given a choice and took it.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

the expulsion of Jews and Muslims from the peninsula that began in 1492,

... and just how did the Muslims come to be in Iberia and what had happened to the Christian who were there first?

[yankeedame]

From "Spain Under the Habsburgs: Vol. 11 Spain & American 1598-1700" by John Lynch:
(Underlined passage -- and typos -- mine-YD)
================

"The basic problem of the moriscos was a problem of integration. The moriscos remained a class apart, with their own language and religion and a way of life directed by Islamic law. In Aragon and Valencia, descendants of those who had submitted to forced conversion, they were a geniune enclave of Islam within Spainm resistant to christianisation and hispanisation, with their own leaders and upper class, their rich and their poor, all equally immune to integration. And as their spiritual home was outside Spain so, it was suspected, was their political allegiance.....

"Muslim Spain was south-eastern Spain. It was here that the real danger was seen to lie. The rapid growth of moriscos of Valencia and Aragon threatened to soon...tip the balance in favor of Islam.

"...on 9 April 1609 it was decided to expel the moriscos from the whole of Spain, beining with Valencia. It was here, as has been seen, that the problem of the moriscos was considered most acute, because of their numbers, their concentration in mountain fastness, their situtation near a coast-line easily accessible from North Africa. It was logical to expel them first, before they organized...or called in outside help...

"...While the diligence and efficiency of the moriscos are not in doubt, it is a myth that they were the only productive classes in Spain; most of the trades and occupations in which they (moriscos) specialized, including irrigation, were also widely practiced by Sparniards....If we are to judge by wage and price levels in those sectors of the economy where the moriscos had been most productive, the expulsion had little material consequences..."

[GeekDejure]

... and just how did the Muslims come to be in Iberia and what had happened to the Christian who were there first?

Hmmm... that sounds like what's happening in AmericaTODAY !!!

.

[Chewbacca]

El Cid!
El Cid!
El Cid!
El Cid!
Hammer of the Moors!
El Cid!

[zimdog]

how do you reconcile the two statements in your posting?

[zimdog]

pure revisionism

[appeal2]

Muslims, yes, Jews, no. Your position shows complete ignorance of history. Jews have never been into conversion of outsiders, either by the sword or otherwise. To convert a new jew must go through a rigorous course of study. To my knowledge this has always been the case. Plus we're not talking about just expulsion, we're talking about the Spanish Inquistion. And it wasn't what was depicted in Mel Brooks History of the World.

Before you make such statements, read your history. Maybe killing off and starving all none Aryans was a reasonable response to preserve the nation's identity in World War 2.