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To: Servant of the 9
If it weren't for secular humanists, you would be crapping in an outhouse, watching half your children die before the age of two, and hoping your wife wasn't burned as a witch.

This is such an outlandish statement, it bears further response. It was Christians who established our nation on this continent, it is Christinaity that gives you your freedom, it was Christians who abolished slavery (abolitionist movement), Christian scientists who made the biggest discoveries in history (Newton, Kepler, Copernicus, Galileo, Pasteur, Farraday, etc. etc.), Christian thinkers who had the greatest influence on our founders and founding documents (Locke, Montesquieu, Puffendorf, Grotius, Blackstone), Christians who first settled this land (pilgrims, puritans), Christians who started the first hospitals and orphanages, and on and on.

On the other hand, secular humanism is responsible for 100 million dead in the 20th century under the secular humanist regimes of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, Kim Il-Sung, etc. In secular-humanism, the State is God and arbiter of all rights - and when corrupt man becomes the arbiter of rights, mass graves are the result. History proves it. The Salem witch trials resulted in a total of about 18 deaths. Care to debate it some more?

159 posted on 11/13/2003 10:10:50 AM PST by exmarine (sic semper tyrannis)
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To: exmarine
Christian scientists who made the biggest discoveries in history (Newton, Kepler, Copernicus, Galileo, Pasteur, Farraday, etc. etc.),

Isn't it a little cheeky for Christianity to claim credit for the discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo when Christianity actively surpressed Coperinican theory and put Galileo on trial???
169 posted on 11/13/2003 10:15:17 AM PST by Belial
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To: exmarine
Christian scientists who made the biggest discoveries in history (Newton, Kepler, Copernicus, Galileo, Pasteur, Farraday, etc. etc.)

What ever, except possibly a deranged Sunday School teacher, ever gave you the idea that any of those were Christian?

And by the way most of our founders were Deists by belief and nominal Christians because that helped keep the trash under control.

So9

173 posted on 11/13/2003 10:16:57 AM PST by Servant of the 9 (A Goldwater Republican)
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To: exmarine
There are a lot of people on this board who should take all the money in their wallets and in their bank accounts and burn it! It states "IN GOD WE TRUST"
176 posted on 11/13/2003 10:18:10 AM PST by TrueBeliever9
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To: exmarine
This is such an outlandish statement, it bears further response.
As part of an effort to escape a religious Establishment.
It was Christians who established our nation on this continent,
Jefferson did not believe in the divinity of Christ. Franklin confessed to doubts. Paine was contemptuous of organized religion. American liberty was by no means an exclusively a Christian effort.
it is Christinaity that gives you your freedom,
The Constitution does that.
it was Christians who abolished slavery (abolitionist movement),
Some "Christians" justified slavery using the Bible.
Christian scientists who made the biggest discoveries in history (Newton, Kepler, Copernicus, Galileo, Pasteur, Farraday, etc. etc.)
Copernicus didn't publish until he was on his deathbed. There's little doubt what he thought of the religious Establishment. As for Galileo......
Christian thinkers who had the greatest influence on our founders and founding documents (Locke, Montesquieu, Puffendorf, Grotius, Blackstone),
Paine, Frankin, Jefferson.....
Christians who first settled this land (pilgrims, puritans), Christians who started the first hospitals and orphanages, and on and on.
Puritans seeking religious freedom, Penn who was arrested for preaching in London, ......

-Eric

196 posted on 11/13/2003 10:25:40 AM PST by E Rocc
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To: exmarine
"it was Christians who abolished slavery (abolitionist movement)..."

You convienently forgot to mention that they ended the slavery that the Christians who founded the country started. And many Christians fought long and hard using the Bible to keep blacks in slavery. Heck, Stonewall Jackson was about as Christian as they came. Not too good an example.
307 posted on 11/13/2003 11:14:45 AM PST by kegler4
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To: exmarine
I'll jump in and say that referring to Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, Kim Il-Sung as secular humanists is absurd.

They may be secular, but they ain't no humanists.

secular humanism
n.
An outlook or philosophy that advocates human rather than religious values.
Secularism.

No part of secular humanism advocates the gulag, as that is clearly antithetical to the notion of humanism.
354 posted on 11/13/2003 11:41:33 AM PST by dmz
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