France and Germany discuss union

Guardian ^ | 11/13/03 | Jon Henley in Paris

[Pikamax]

France and Germany discuss union

Jon Henley in Paris Thursday November 13, 2003 The Guardian

France and Germany are publicly discussing the possibility of a "Franco-German union" that would allow them to cooperate more closely in such areas as education, social affairs and the economy and even merge their defence and foreign policies, the French daily Le Monde said yesterday. The paper said that at this stage Europe's two most powerful nations, whose historic enmity has been transformed into the main driving force towards European integration, saw the project primarily as a tactic to ensure that countries such as Spain and Poland do not block the planned European constitution, paralysing the EU as it expands to 25 members next year.

But beyond short-term tactical considerations, some form of Franco-German union is seen by leaders particularly in Paris as a vital future step. The French foreign minister, Dominique de Villepin, said the project was "essential" and "the only historic gamble that we cannot lose".

The prime minister, Jean-Pierre Raffarin, who earlier this month hoisted a joint meeting of French and German regional authorities, also believes the two countries' relations have never been closer and that the time is ripe to go "pretty far", Le Monde said. After a shaky period during and immediately after the stormy Nice EU summit in December 2000, Paris and Berlin have worked conspicuously hard to get the so-called Franco-German motor firing again.

Their efforts culminated earlier this year when the French president, Jacques Chirac, and the German chancellor, Gerhard Schröder, signed a declaration promising more cooperation in areas ranging from crime to foreign policy.

They also said France and Germany would seek to "adopt common positions" in international bodies, including the UN security council, hold joint cabinet meetings, harmonise national laws wherever possible, and each appoint a senior official to oversee Franco-German cooperation.

Since then the two countries' relationship has been further cemented by the role they played in opposing the US-led invasion of Iraq, and more recently Mr Chirac represented Mr Schröder at an European council meeting in October.

But it is the realisation in both capitals that without the closest possible cooperation, France and Germany could well lose much of their influence in a larger EU that seems to be driving the project for a Franco-German union.

Le Monde quoted Mr Raffarin as saying: "If Europe with 25 members is a failure, what is left for France? The initiative of Franco-German rapprochement."

The prime minister reportedly continued, during a recent informal debate, to praise the "efficiency" of Paris's relations with Berlin and to say he could "well imagine that one day a German commissioner could represent France in Brussels."

[Cloud William]

Well, at least it'll be a race to see whether the Germans or the Islamic loonies get their hands on France's nukes.

[Cloud William]

The EU must really be in tatters if this is what they are resorting to.

Yep, that was my first thought, too. This German-French union has always been at the core of the E.U.; I've always believed that the other nations involved were mere window-dressing, though they probably were not aware of that fact.

[longtermmemmory]

Here is another theory. The euro as a currency is failing. The rich nations are subsidizing the ecconomically weaker nations. (see affirmative action bake sale) Could it be that France and Germany are setting themselves up for a way "out" of the EU?

England is discussing withdrawal when they should have been counting the votes for approving the euro.

10 new nations are joining the EU and demanding the farming subidies that were promised in exchange for a yes vote.

The organization charged with tracking the strength of the euro is in the midst of its second scandal. (the group brought in to clean up the first scandal was caught doing the same number manipulations)

The EU is split in supporting/opposing the US or UN.

Individual nation states refuse to surrend all international policy in favor of the EU. (actually in favor of what france and germany say they should do.)

The euro is just a retooled deutch mark anyways.

France was given a pass on their breach of the EU treaty regarding budget deficit controls.

*somebody is planing ahead.

[longtermmemmory]

(s) Islam is not a religion per se. Its more a philosophy. Therefore not subject to the seperation of church and state. Islamic law therefor must be incorperated into EU law in order to assure "diversity" and peaceful "co-existence." Those of the Islamic "philosophy" only desire room to grow......"spiritually". Its about peace in out time.(/s)

[cardinal4]

Read Larry Bonds Cauldron. Its about a Franco-German Union that starts WWIII on the Euro contintent. The good thing about the book is Larry paints the French as arrogant, whiny and untrustworthy. Oh, wait a minute....

[Savage Beast]

This'll be fun to watch.

[longtermmemmory]

And warren buffet holding all those euros. (the future of toilet paper)

[ellery]

The paper said that at this stage Europe's two most powerful nations, whose historic enmity has been transformed into the main driving force towards European integration, saw the project primarily as a tactic to ensure that countries such as Spain and Poland do not block the planned European constitution...

What could this possibly mean in practice? Franco-Prussian (I mean, German) cooperation does not take away Poland's or Spain's ability to vote against the EU Constitution. Could this be a physical-intimidation-type threat?

Fourth Reich alert.

[Styria]

Maybe if the capital were Aachen....

[MinuteGal]

Ah, this would be a marriage made in heaven.

I presume they'll ask Bishop Robinson to preside over the union?

Leni

[maestro]

Here is another theory. The euro as a currency is failing. The rich nations are subsidizing the ecconomically weaker nations. (see affirmative action bake sale) Could it be that France and Germany are setting themselves up for a way "out" of the EU?

Could it be that France and Germany are setting themselves up for a way "out" of the EU?

Not 'out,....but, a major/total reorganization!

Soviet Russia's 'France' is still very much alive and well!

Commrades 'all-around'......!!

:-(

[Shermy]

So, together they can allow their mutual socialism to take them down into glorious flames. Can't wait!

It could end up splitting the "EU" - France-Germ-Belgium v. everyone else. Maybe even a NATO (With Russia) v. Franco-German Empire bipolar world.

Heck, Chirac always complains about a "Unipolar" world!

[SwinneySwitch]

I thought that was a pig I saw flying this evening!

[RJL]

France and Germany… see the project primarily as a tactic to ensure that countries such as Spain and Poland do not block the planned European constitution (written by the French, for the French), paralysing the EU as it expands to 25 members next year.

But it is the realisation in both capitals that without the closest possible cooperation, France and Germany could well lose much of their influence in a larger EU that seems to be driving the project for a Franco-German union.

The French foreign minister, Dominique de Villepin, said the project was "essential" and "the only historic gamble that we cannot lose".

This tells me that the EU is not a “Union” at all, but merely a vehicle used by a desperate France and Germany to dominate the rest of Europe.

[maestro]

Your#35.....correct!

This tells me that the EU is not a ?Union? at all, but merely a vehicle used by a desperate France and Germany to dominate the rest of Europe.

...a vehicle used by SOVIET RUSSIA'S two colonies....the desperate France and Germany to dominate the rest of Europe.

The ongoing 'Internationale' is alive and well!

:-(

[metalboy]

France and Germany discuss union...There`s something very 'gay' sounding about that.

[freedumb2003]

"It could end up splitting the "EU" - France-Germ-Belgium v. everyone else"

populations:

Germany: 82,797,408
France: 59,329,691
Belgium: 10,241,506
TOTAL: 152,368,605

USA: 275,562,673
UK: 59,511,464
TOTAL: 335,074,137

(source: World Factbook)

So just the English speaking world is 220% (over twice the size) of this "uber-frog" union. Two pygmies doth not a giant make.

[Unam Sanctam]

Charlemagne would be pleased to see his empire reassembled.

[F16Fighter]

"The French obviously suffer from Stockholm Syndrome."

Nice call...

And at this point, the psyche-fragile Germany also appear ready to become a nation of cultural transvestites if that's what it takes to be France's b*tch.