Indecisive nutrition 'experts' should leave us alone [Bread will kill you, keep the cows off Atkins]

.thecountrytoday ^ | 11-12-03

[SJackson]

And now, the 2003 Nutritional Villain of the Year is - may I have a drum roll, please! - bread.

That's right, folks, the staff of life turns out to be a stake through your heart, if you read the latest reports. Bread makes you fat, they say.

Bread-phobia appears to be almost entirely due to the Atkins diet and all its low or no-carb permutations that have recently swept the country. The basic idea is that if you eat only meat, dairy products and vegetables you'll feel full and lose weight.

Bread sales across the country are falling like punched-down dough as chubby consumers shy away from carbohydrates. I heard all about this for the second or third time on a radio program on the way to work the other day. They were interviewing bakers who were wondering what to do to revive sales. Maybe they need a bread check-off.

Studies and anecdotal experience show that the Atkins diet works, at least in the short term. Close to home, both my parents lost weight in the first year. In recent months they haven't.

One veterinarian I chatted with about the diet wondered what happens to people's livers when they're on the Atkins diet for long periods of time. He knows what happens to cows that eat too much protein and not enough roughage.

Wasn't it just a few years ago that bread was the culinary darling du jour? But as with so many other foods, fame has proven to be treacherous. Look what happened to eggs, butter, chocolate and red meat. Two or three decades ago the once-beloved egg was suddenly renamed as the great villain, a nasty little thing that raised your cholesterol and gave you heart attacks.

Then real butter came under attack, and we were all supposed to eat margarine. Dairy products in general, once a cornerstone of the nutriiton pyramid, were suddenly discovered to be fattening and bad for you. So much for my childhood instructions to "drink lots of milk for strong bones."

The next victim was red meat. I don't remember exactly what the reasoning was behind that vilification, but we were to substitute with chicken and fish. Chocolate got a nutritional hatchet job for being fattening, probably because we love it so much. But that was then.

Now eggs are OK to eat again, since they're wonderfully complete nutritional packages. Cholesterol evidently has more to do with your genetic inheritance than your diet, though diet is still important for those who need to bring their levels under control.

Butter has been found to be better for your blood vessels than margarine, and red meat is great for adding vitamins and minerals to your diet, especially iron. Chocolate is a mood elevator and teeth protector. I knew all along it made me feel better; now many experts agree.

In the past two years many nutritionists have restored dairy products to a place of honor as the best source of calcium for a calcium defiecient nation. Several recent large studies have also shown that dairy is an aid to weight loss. The calcium and perhaps other components in dairy products have the effect of speeding up the metabolism, so you burn calories faster.

In the 1973 movie "Sleeper," actor Woody Allen played a vegetarian California health-food store owner who is cryogenically frozen and then thawed out 200 years later.

After he's properly re-warmed, his hosts offer him - to his horror - a healthy meal of steak and brownies to restore him to good health.

The scene was hilarious then; now it's spooky because it's coming true.

Of course, not all nutritional experts agree that eggs, meat, milk and butter are good guys again, but the tide has certainly turned.

I have great hopes that in a few years this smear campaign against bread will blow over and carbohydrates will be restored to their proper place in the national diet.

Before nutrition became a polticial issue, grade school students, myself included, were taught a pretty simple, user-friendly program for staying healthy and slim. The gist of it was that everyone should eat three moderate - moederate is a key concept, here - well-balanced meals each day.

Well-balanced meant a combination of meat and dairy, fruits and vegetables, and breads and starches. It did not mean a continuous intake of nutritionally worthless, high-calorie pop, chips and candy.

We were a slimmer nation back then.

Maybe it's not so much what you eat, but how much, and how much you exercise. Not a revolutionary thought, exactly, but one that might be usefully revived from the dustbin of nutritional history.

Ann Hansen covers news in west-central Wisconsin and is the small acreage section editor for The Country Today. She may be reached at shansen@bloomer.net.

[Teacher317]

I am sure Redwood doesn't eat trash but I still would not be able to handle the 250+ grams of carbs he is eating and not gain weight or constantly be hungry.

It is so weird to be eating to my heart's content, yet eating less than I had before, and losing weight while doing it. I had fun calculating how many carbs I was taking in before... an example for lunch: 2 servings of Kraft Mac-n-cheese (47 each), 2 black cherry sodas (45 each), and a hot dog with ketchup on a bun (25). 209 grams in ONE meal!

I didn't total 209 during my entire 2-week induction period.

Throw in 3 slices of pizza for dinner (with another soda or two), a bowl of cereal for breakfast, and an apple and a candy bar for snacks, and I had to be over 350 daily. I have a hard time figuring out how to get up to 70 per day, now. LOL

[Redwood71]

Thank you. Your statement is a true eye opener. It illustrates my point on these diets completely. The medical evidence from so many different directions, some sound and others not so much, is that the short term results of these types of diets are radical with quick weight loss being mostly water, and not a lot of actual fat loss. It leads to a thought that continuance will breed greater success. In the mean time, the health hazzards that spring up over time with the use of these diets, medium to long term, make them a questionable tool. If the health conditions mentioned, even the most common one mentioned, diarrhea which is reported to start in most patients that get it in about two weeks, start, then the patient will discontinue the diet. Hence the regaining of the weight lost. I got it at about that time when I tried the diet myself. I lost weight on the Atkins, until the diarrhea got so bad that I was unable to function normally.

What I said about the diets still applies, and is backed by too many competent medial sources, the effect of these diets can be negative and dangerous. I will not recommend them until the medical evidence indicates that they do not cause possible problems. Until then, eat balanced and exercise properly with a well rounded program. Weight loss has become so much of a business that it propagates its need. Stride to get healthy first. The weight loss will take care of itself.

Red

[Ladysmith]

I cannot possibly imagine it being an unhealthy diet because it consists of all the foods that humans have been eating for thousands of years. Meat, fish, eggs, vegetables, berries, nuts, yogurt, olive oil, even beer, wine and whole-grain bread from time to time. On the other hand, all the foods I gave up were only created over the past century. I'm talking all the hydrogenated vegetable oils and the high fructose corn syrups and all those other artificial flavors and additives that are thrown into our (processed) food these days.

Boy, I'm agreeing with this more and more each day. Every day I don't eat processed food, the better I feel. Even those chocolate peanut butter Atkins bars that taste good affected me. I'm done experimenting: I now know what works and what doesn't, and one of the things that also doesn't work for me is the processed low-carb foods. I even found the organic Stonyfield Farm yogurt at our Walmart here which just tickles me. No chemicals or additives.

And I wondered why I was so sickly for so long. Garbage in, garbage out. When I reduce the amount of carbs and processed foods I take in, my nerves hurt less, my eye sight clears up, my joints and muscles get stronger, no sugar spikes or crashes, better circulation (improvement with lymphedema) and warmer feet, better sleep, stronger bladder (avoiding surgery), and on and on. I'm positive that I'm dodging that Diabetes bullet.

[Redwood71]

I'm glad you found the way to get healthy. The foods you mentioned that you gave up are called simple carbohydrates, or empty calories because they contain little, if any, nutrients. They are linked to dental problems and elevating triglyceride levels. Even the fruit, the berries, that contain fructose (a simple sugar),is considered a complex carb. Eat and enjoy within reason if you are going to exercise. I like berries a lot and recommend their consumption. The average consumption of fiber that you get from complex carbs, is only about 15 grams per day in the U.S. It should be about twice that daily to assist the body as low fiber has been linked to cardiovascular disease and type II diabetes.

Carbs', hopefully complex, primary function is to provide energy for the various tissues of the body. The nervous system relies exclusively on carbs as an energy source. Cutting it to a "too low" level can be difficult.

My recommendations are backed by solid medical sources: The American Diebetic Assn, American Heart Assn, American Dietetic Assn, American Cancer Society, American College of Sports Medicine, Cooper Institute and Cooper Clinics, National Institute of Health, Center for Disease Control and Prevention, and the American Academy of Pediatricians, to name a few. I am not going to put myself out on a limb by saying that medical science has answered all the questions on low carb/high protein diets. But they have entertained enough at this point for me to not recommend them for a quality life change and overall health benefit. I hate the word diet anyway, it is misleading. I like the word healthy. There is no substitute for it.

Red

[Crispy]

"This isn’t just me “bashing” Atkins. I’ve worked in the field for over 30 years and I have not yet found a low carb high protein diet that works because just as soon as you go off it, you gain it back. And all the low carb diets, with time, create a consistent pattern of health risks."

Wow. Your a ****ing genius. Of course if you go back to eating the stuff that got you fat in the first place, you are going to start gaining weight. Congratulations, you passed Logic 101.

[Crispy]

"If you read the articles I displayed, you'll see a consistent run of medical problems from a large number of people using different "diets" geared toward protein. Stones, heart problems, kidney ailments, ketosis, and more seem to pop up with a great enough regularity that I feel where there's smoke, there could be fire. You also mentioned that aspect of energy?"

Since when is Ketosis a medical problem?

[Nov3]

I even found the organic Stonyfield Farm yogurt at our Walmart here which just tickles me.

Mmmm Mmmmm! My wife and I LOVE it. Especially the fat that layers on top of the full fat version. Yummy!

[Nov3]

Since when is Ketosis a medical problem?

Since these low fat hucksters can't find anything else to carp about. Ketosis is natural and humans went through it every year during the winter until just recently (the agricultural revolution). As to the rest of the ailments he is posting about they come from mainly discredited studies that basically say that since we found this in a few low carb dieters it is a result of the diet ignoring the fact that people who diet usually are not in the best shape to begin with.

Stones, heart problems, kidney ailments, ketosis, and more seem to pop up with a great enough regularity that I feel where there's smoke, there could be fire.

First there has NEVER been a documented case of a person with HEALTHY kidneys failing because of a low carb diet - NONE. The diet is documented to improve lipid profies and heart function. Atkins and the South Beach doctor were cardiologists who had the gall to oppose the AHA's recomendations who puts their heart healthy stamp on Count Chocula cereal. That is somebody I want giving me health advice! The rate of stones is also the same as the population as a whole. As far as energy goes - I don't want to eat and sleep at 10 and 2 anymore.

The attack on this diet by people who have staked their careers on low fat has just begun. (Like Redwood) The bread industry has openly declared war in England - do a google news search. Con Agra and all the grain dealers are not happy either.

[Nov3]

And I wondered why I was so sickly for so long. Garbage in, garbage out. When I reduce the amount of carbs and processed foods I take in, my nerves hurt less, my eye sight clears up, my joints and muscles get stronger, no sugar spikes or crashes, better circulation (improvement with lymphedema) and warmer feet, better sleep, stronger bladder (avoiding surgery), and on and on. I'm positive that I'm dodging that Diabetes bullet.

Do some reading on Vitamin D and the symptoms you describe. But be sure to get your Vitamin D from Cod Liver Oil mainly. Go to Mercola.com and do a search. Also Google.com keywords vitamin D and one of your symptoms

[Angry_White_Man_Syndrome]

I read several of the links you provided. What I find interesting is that everyone I read does not describe the Atkin's way of eating. Also, they do not tell you that after about eating low-carb for about 2 or 3 weeks you actually eat less. I personally was rarely hungry between meals, I was eating about 1/2 the portions I did before Atkin's.

It is interesting to note that the majority of health experts say we should follow the diet formulated 1970's. Haven't all the news article's been say that that is when American's started getting fatter? Or is it just circumstatual?

[SamAdams76]

I eat Stonyfield Farms yogurt too, every morning as part of my breakfast. All natural and with plenty of live cultures that are so good for you. It does have sugar but it's the natural kind, not that corn-syrupy or refined stuff. It definitely sates my sweet tooth. Because I have cut out all other sweets, a cup of blueberry yogurt tastes to me like cheesecake and blueberry pie.

BTW, when I added yogurt to my daily breakfast, my problems with constipation were gone within a week and never returned.

[Ladysmith]

Thanks for the tip, I'll do that right now.

[Nov3]

They oil based vitamin A and D are a lot harder to OD on than water soluble nutrients. That is why you should use Cod Liver Oil. It is a good idea to get a vitamin D level done also. My wife has benefited greatly from the Cod Liver oil.

[Nov3]

The foods you mentioned that you gave up are called simple carbohydrates, or empty calories because they contain little, if any, nutrients.

Actually he cut down quite a bit on complex carbohydrates - potatoes, pasta, beans, rice, etc. Nutritionally these foods are basically zeros though brown rice and beans do have some nutrients. Some of these are worse than eating an equivalent weight of sugar (potato for instance when baked has a glycemic rating of 150 something as I remember). Now if you ate only the potato skin it would be an excellent choice;-)

[Ladysmith]

From what I've read so far, I may be low on vitamin D. Quite a few symptoms there makes it all suspect. And why I seem a bit healthier in the summer when I can swim, bike, and camp. For one, our latitude is about 45 degrees so not enough sun here.

What I haven't found is what kind of problems would toxic levels of D cause? Because if I read it correctly, the problems aren't as reversable. (Think I'll contact a nutritionist locally who has helped me in the past...)

[Redwood71]

Ketosis is an elevated level of ketone bodies in the blood and urine. Commonly seen in starvation diets, low carb diets, and poorly controlled diabetics. Ketosis and ketoacidosis are not different. Ketosis is a by product of gluconeogenesis--the making of new sugar (read scientific names backwards and you can often discover what they mean--genesis=creation; neo=new; gluco-sugar). Although the people who promote this process, which usually occurs in a high fat, low carb or low calorie diet, as a phenomena of the conversion of fat to sugar, it is the conversion of protein to sugar...the process of removing the nitrogen from the protein allows the remaining molecules to convert to sugar. The nitrogen is converted to ammonia then urea and produces ketosis. This is a much more efficient system for producing glucose than breaking down fat and is in every nutritional biochemistry book universities use. It's simply that people who market this method of weight loss mention the burning of fat and neglect to tell folks that protein is burned first...it's about two weeks before the body starts converting fat (a much more complex process) to sugar.
KETOSIS is the presence in the blood of abnormally high levels of acidic substances called ketones. Normally the blood ketone levels are low, but in starvation or when a diet is high in fat and low in carbs, the levels rise. It's a typical by product of crash diets. High levels of ketones with resulting acidity in the blood is called ketoacidosis. This happens when the blood ketone levels get to high and indicates a major biochemical upset in the body. The use of ketostix can often help monitor the level of ketones and prevent the higher levels that result in the ketoacidosis diagnosis...but they are not really two different things as some suggest. Note the interesting though that ketosis can be so dangerous that diabetics and pregnant women use the ketostix to prevent those high levels of ketones from occuring. If it happens naturally in people like this, why can’t it happen to anyone that has the same type of acidic possibilities?

[Nov3]

What I haven't found is what kind of problems would toxic levels of D cause? Because if I read it correctly, the problems aren't as reversable. (Think I'll contact a nutritionist locally who has helped me in the past...)

It is standard practice to get blood levels taken for vitamin D. The test you ask for is the 25(OH)D, also called 25-hydroxyvitamin D, Do not ask for the 1,25(OH)D. The reference levels are done by comparing the population as a whole and as you have read the population as a whole is low. That being said you can theoretically get too much D and A. You have to try hard taking natural supplements however. Here are two links:

Too Much Vitamin D

http://www.mercola.com/2003/dec/24/vitamin_d_deficiency.htm

http://www.cholecalciferol-council.com/index.htm

Get the correct test and test until you get an optimum level. It is very hard to OD on supplements and would take many months of heavy use but it can be done. I take ~ 1 tbsp/day winter COD LIVER oil and 2 tbsp FISH oil/day summer. My levels are normal according to my doctor but getting records is next to impossible sometimes. (I haven't got my test from a month ago yet!).

Good luck reading up on this. A lot of the thinking is changing rapidly on D. Also if you are taking Cod Liver Oil make sure you are not loading up on A from other sources though Vitamin A is far less toxic in oil.

Oh also use cholechalciferol supplements not ergocalciferl. The Cholo is the natural type.

[Redwood71]

Circumstantual, or should I say "campy"? Appearance has changed in many ways over the last 2000 years. Some peoples are stocky by nature as they have learned to appreciate the large frame. Polynesions are an example. The Sumoans have been living "large" for many years whereas the Japanese small. Even hair length has been an isssue in this country as it was common for gangsters to wear their hair short, but in later years, long hair was considered not normal. My only concern for a person coming to me to ask for weight loss is that they consider healthy first. I like to use the Harris-Benedict Eqaution for dietary calory control and I stress eating rounded and exercise. It seems to work and is backed by most of the name medical organizations.

[Redwood71]

SamAdams76 mentioned giving up cookies, cakes, pies, chips and crackers. Simple here.

[Ladysmith]

If there's a way to get nutrition through foods, I try to do that first. So I looked for a listing of foods that has vitamin D and found this chart here.

Food	International Units	%DV *
Cod Liver Oil, 1 Tbs.	1,360 IU	340
Salmon, cooked, 3 1/2 oz	360 IU	90
Mackerel, cooked, 3 1/2 oz	345 IU	90
Sardines, canned in oil, drained,3 1/2 oz	270 IU	70
Eel, cooked, 3 1/2 oz	200 IU	50
Milk, nonfat, reduced fat, and whole, vitamin D fortified, 1 c	98 IU	25
Margarine, fortified, 1 Tbs.	60 IU	15
Cereal grain bars, fortified w/ 10% of the DV, 1 each	50 IU	10
Pudding, 1/2 c prepared from mix and made with vitamin D fortified milk	50 IU	10
Dry cereal, Vit D fortified w/10%* of DV, 3/4 c * Other cereals may be fortified with more or less vitamin D	40-50 IU	10
Liver, beef, cooked, 3 1/2 oz	30 IU	8
Egg, 1 whole (vitamin D is present in the yolk)	25 IU	6
* DV = Daily Value. DVs are reference numbers based on the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA). They were developed to help consumers determine if a food contains very much of a specific nutrient. The DV for vitamin D is 400 IU. The percent DV (%DV) listed on the nutrition facts panel of food labels tells adults what percentage of the DV is provided by one serving. Percent DVs are based on a 2,000-calorie diet. Your Daily Values may be higher or lower depending on your calorie needs. Foods that provide lower percentages of the DV will contribute to a healthful diet.

Again, go figure - I feel better when I include more salmon and sardines in my diet. I could eat salmon 7 days a week if it were cheaper. Sardines was an acquired taste - no problem now once I let most of the oil drain off. Time to start eating more of each on a regular basis and see what happens.

Still considering the testing, however. If a deficiency in D is part of my problems, especially the lymphedema, your information will have been a huge blessing.