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Vanity: My Letter to Alabama Attorney General Pryor
Self | 11/11/2003 | Self

Posted on 11/11/2003 11:43:08 AM PST by farmer18th

Dear Mr. Pryor:

Your actions with respect to Judge Moore confuse me.

Is "Thou Shalt Not Steal" offensive to you? (I'm glad I don't own property in Alabama)

Is "Thou Shalt Not Murder" problematic for you? (I'm glad I don't live in Alabama)

Is "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery" hurtful to you? (I'm glad you don't know my wife.)

Is "Thou Shalt not Bear False Witness" repugnant to you? (I'm glad I never had to seek justice in your state.)

Is "Thou Shalt Have no Other Gods Before Me" distasteful to you? (What with lightning bolts and all, I'm glad I dont worship next to you.)

We are a nation of laws, Mr. Pryor, and not of men. I'm just confused as to which laws you follow.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events; US: Alabama
KEYWORDS: billpryor; judgemoore; pryor; tencommandments
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To: EternalVigilance
First, I didn't say it did. In fact, I asked you what happened to your web site. You acted like I didn't know what I was talking about, then acted like you didn't know anything about a PAC.

Second, you are posting with an agenda that mimics those you serve. If you want that agenda to be secret, fine. But that doesn't mean anyone who knows who you are has to help.

Have fun on the phones.

401 posted on 11/12/2003 11:05:15 AM PST by lugsoul (And I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin on the mountainside)
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To: lugsoul
Again, it isn't my website, and it isn't my PAC.

I answered you in accord with the way you asked your annoyingly probing questions.

My agenda is no secret. Your claim that it is is ridiculous on its face.

My agenda is also my agenda, not someone else's. Your attempt to paint me as the paid lackey for anyone is first of all ignorant, notwithstanding your arrogant attempt to make people believe you know everything, and also interestingly hostile coming from a fellow FReeper.

As to whose phones I answer, that's none of your business. I find it more than odd that you would take the trouble to find out such things.

But even that just shows your ignorance. On Capitol Hill, rents are not cheap. Lots of people share resources here, including office space. We're conservatives and don't believe in wasting money.

Are you about done with your anal probe, counsellor?

402 posted on 11/12/2003 11:12:49 AM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: EternalVigilance
"interestingly hostile"

Pot, meet kettle. You have no room to criticize anyone's hostility. If you want to do so, I suggest you scroll back through these threads and count the names you've hurled at me.

And if you don't like folks knowing the fact that you are a shill for people who use this ginned-up Moore debacle as a fundraising tool, then you should try a little harder to keep it a secret.

403 posted on 11/12/2003 11:22:44 AM PST by lugsoul (And I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin on the mountainside)
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To: EternalVigilance
By the way - MY conservative agenda is for the government to have LESS involvement in every aspect of our lives. Only in your world is using the state as an ad agency for your chosen faith a "conservative" idea.
404 posted on 11/12/2003 11:33:16 AM PST by lugsoul (And I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin on the mountainside)
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To: EternalVigilance
Again, it isn't my website, and it isn't my PAC.

Lugos is just feeling sensitive because he doesn't like admitting that people who don't like the posting of the Ten Commandments probably have some sort of emotional investment in blasphemy, murder, adultery, theft, purjery, and greed. I'd get a little sensitive if I were defending vice as well.
405 posted on 11/12/2003 11:33:56 AM PST by farmer18th
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To: Bryan24
He went about this THE WRONG WAY.

Did he now? Have the Ten Commandments been in the news or not, these last two years? Hmmm? Has Moore controlled the agenda or has the liberal media? Hmmm? Would we even be having this discussion if someone hadn't pointed a finger of defiance at the ACLU? Hmmm?

Tell me, are you from Alabama?

I wasn't aware that residence in the great state of Alabama was a requirment here, but, if so, then perhaps the Federal Courts should have nothing to say in the matter? At any rate, given Attorney General Pryor's lack of concern with respect to blasphemy, sabbath breaking, murder, adultering, theft, and greed, I'm glad I don't live in Alabama. It sounds like an anarchic place.
406 posted on 11/12/2003 11:45:47 AM PST by farmer18th
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To: farmer18th
So, you are not only stupid, but you are a liar as well. I'm sure I don't need to remind you of what I posted directly to you:

"I've got no problem with it - though some faiths have a problem with that translation. But, let me shortcut this a bit - I have no problem with posting commandments 5-10 in any courthouse. Have at it."

So, you can retract your lie about what I "like" or don't like, or you can remain a liar.

407 posted on 11/12/2003 11:46:56 AM PST by lugsoul (And I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin on the mountainside)
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To: farmer18th
"I'm glad I don't live in Alabama."

I glad you don't, as well. It doesn't need anyone like you.

Also, its good to see you view a judge's proper role as stirring up media attention. Point us to that provision in the Constitution, would ya?

408 posted on 11/12/2003 11:49:12 AM PST by lugsoul (And I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin on the mountainside)
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To: farmer18th
What specifically do you find objectionable about the statements:
THOU SHALT NOT HAVE ANY OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.
THOU SHALT NOT MAKE ANY GRAVEN IMAGE
THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN
THOU SHALT REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY
THOU SHALT HONOR THY FATHER AND MOTHER
THOU SHALT NOT MURDER
THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
THOU SHALT NOT STEAL
THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOR
THOU SHALT NOT COVET

There are many objectionable things about the list you just posted.

a) Where did you get your list? It is not the list which Moore had engraved in his stone. His list says "Thou shalt no kill," not "Thou shalt not murder." There are some other wording differences as well.

b) Where did Moore get his list? I checked the 16 translations of the Bible on the Bible Gateway and his list, as he has worded it, does not appear in any of them. According to his own statements Moore has placed this monument to show respect for God's Word, but not without first editing the words to suit himself.

It is certainly different from the Catholic listing of the Decalogue. Therefore this list shows a preference for one sect over another. That in itself is a clear violation of the intent of the 1st Amendment.

c) "THOU SHALT NOT MAKE ANY GRAVEN IMAGE" Aside from the fact that Moore himself has created a 'graven image' this is a commandment that few of us are interested in following. Are sculptures immoral? I don't think so. Do you? If so you should be offended by this monument.

d) "THOU SHALT NOT HAVE ANY OTHER GODS BEFORE ME" America has freedom of religion. If I want to go worship a moon god, or a pantheon of gods, or no god at all then that is my business. I don't think there should be a large stone monument in a state courthouse commanding me to worship the God of the ancient Hebrews (even if I choose to worship that same God elsewhere). This commandment also directly contradicts the US and Alabama Constitutions. Do you find the 1st Amendment objectionable?

e) "THOU SHALT REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY" The sabbath day? Which day is that? Friday, Saturday, Sunday? Since Moore felt comfortable editing the text maybe he should change that to "a sabbath day?"

f) The context, including Moore's own actions and words, are objectionable. Moore has gone out of his way to be provocative in placing this monument. He has shown disrespect for his colleagues, for the Consitution, for his office, and for those of other faiths.

409 posted on 11/12/2003 12:09:06 PM PST by Looking for Diogenes
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To: EveningStar
Ohioan, would you be willing to distill your univeral suffrage and Holocaust stances down to a paragraph or two each? Thank you.

I tried to contact you, privately, to make sure that I understood this request. I am not quite sure, but I will try to do what you request with respect to the most significant aspect of each subject, noting that these "distillations" do not cover all aspects--not by a long shot, as each subject is either the subject or a major part of the subject in at least four separate essays at my web site:

With that caveat, my view on universal suffrage--as a means of determining policy or leadership--is that it is only a satisfactory method, when you have a population where almost everyone has the intellectual capacity, the educational background--which can be at one's mom's knee--and the standard of living, where there is sufficient leisure time, to both understand the political aspects of a people's ethos, and to reflect deeply and regularly on those aspects. Where those things are not all present, there is obvious danger in trusting the "counting of noses," as the determinant of public policy. That danger increases in proportion to the class and ethnic divisions in the population involved--i.e., there is less danger of victimizing minorities and eccentricity, where all those involved have most traits in common.

I also feel that the suffrage should be structured to eliminate obvious conflicts of interest. Thus, anyone receiving regular, unearned checks from any level of Government should not be allowed to vote for that level of Government and still retain eligibility for such payments. The reasons for this are also obvious--preventing the buying of votes, by misapplication of the public revenues.

With regard to the Nazi slaughter of millions of European Jews, I think that one needs to understand the historic root in a century of Socialist propaganda, which demonized the Jews because of their success in Germany under Capitalism--Marx blamed Capitalism on Jews, and speculated on "a world without Jews," and even some of his rivals in the Socialist movement, preached a similar line of hatred. In terms of the early 20th Century, Hitler took up the standard Socialist line, and built on it, as part of his battle to win the rabble in the street from the Bolsheviks. Ultimately--9 years after creating the climate of hate and demonization--he authorized a systematic slaughter, which served the same function for those trying to build a Nazi monolith, as the Bolshevik slaughter of millions of Kulaks, served for the Soviets.

Both massacres reflected the willingness of Socialist movements to employ whatever means they deemed necessary to destroy those whom they did not see as fitting in their "classless" Utopias. Both reflected the intolerance for eccentricity--for individualism--among those with a neurotic need to impose uniformity on their subject populations.

I hope that this is helpful.

For anyone who wants more information, I will be happy to provide links for more thorough discussion.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

410 posted on 11/12/2003 12:26:29 PM PST by Ohioan
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To: jwalsh07
Ah this discussion reminds me of the good old days in law school when the civil procedure professor fixated on the difference between substance versus procedure. I am still not sure what the difference is, but your 7th amendment incorporation discussion reminds me of it, and my salad days.
411 posted on 11/12/2003 12:27:29 PM PST by Torie
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To: Ohioan
I did read your private post but had not yet composed a reply.
412 posted on 11/12/2003 12:32:11 PM PST by EveningStar
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To: EveningStar
My post #386, linked below, is also pertinent--I think--to your query.
413 posted on 11/12/2003 12:33:15 PM PST by Ohioan
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To: dirtboy
That's not what I'm arguing. The poster of this thread claimed that Pryor was not following the law, and I am demostrating that he is, in fact, following the law as it stands in this day and age. The real gripe against Pryor is that he is, in fact, following the law as laid down by a federal judge, when his opponents wish he tell the feds to stuff it.

So, in essense, Pryor was protecting his own butt, regardless of how he may have personally felt about the federal ruling that he was ordered to carry out.

414 posted on 11/12/2003 12:41:21 PM PST by usadave
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To: lugsoul
Good, lugosoul! You're making progress! I would recommend however, that you get over your problem with blasphemy since you obviously don't want that posted in a courtroom. (5-10 ar okay by you, but not the important ones, heah?)

Ever stand in line at a movie theater with your small children, Lugos, when a bunch of the MTV generation stands next to you, using the Lord's name in vain constantly? What's wrong with prohibiting that, Lugos? Forbidding cursing might actually teach young people to think.
415 posted on 11/12/2003 12:46:44 PM PST by farmer18th
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To: usadave
So, in essense, Pryor was protecting his own butt, regardless of how he may have personally felt about the federal ruling that he was ordered to carry out.

Well, I can't claim to know what Pryor personally felt about this. I do know that if he had stood up to the federal judge, he could have kissed his future nomination to the federal bench goodbye.

416 posted on 11/12/2003 12:48:23 PM PST by dirtboy (New Ben and Jerry's flavor - Howard Dean Swirl - no ice cream, just fruit at bottom)
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To: usadave
So, in essense, Pryor was protecting his own butt..

No doubt about that in my mind.

Having said that, I will nonetheless go and do whatever I can to get him an up or down vote in the Senate. He deserves that, and the President deserves that. I just won't have any illusions about how effective he might be in the future in reclaiming the judicial branch from the Left.

417 posted on 11/12/2003 12:50:54 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: lugsoul
Also, its good to see you view a judge's proper role as stirring up media attention. Point us to that provision in the Constitution, would ya?

So judges don't have first amendment rights?
418 posted on 11/12/2003 12:51:00 PM PST by farmer18th
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To: Ohioan
I'll put the Holocaust question aside for the moment, however it is important that you understand that my wife is Jewish and that I hope to someday be Jewish myself.

As to the suffrage issue, your position is, to me, unrealistic, elitest, and arbitrary. Any measurements of voting qualifications such as you mention would be arbitrary and subject to abuse.

419 posted on 11/12/2003 12:54:33 PM PST by EveningStar
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To: farmer18th
Can't keep your arguments straight? Which ones are "important" again? The ones that actually have something to do with the law? Or the ones that involve the relationship between adherents of a certain faith and their God? You WERE saying that this was all about the "law", but now you claim that it is more important to post the Commandments that ARE NOT the law - and even go so far as to claim that they SHOULD BE the law.

When you get over being an inveterate liar, come back with your lectures on morality. Until then, there is no need for anyone to listen to you and your lies.

420 posted on 11/12/2003 12:57:05 PM PST by lugsoul (And I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin on the mountainside)
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