Gay With Children (Barf Alert)

New York Metro Magazine ^ | 11/3/03 | David Usborne

[I_Love_My_Husband]

Yes, even twenty years ago, you could find gay parents who, one way or another, had acquired children, but they were the brave few, fighting an uphill battle against skeptical adoption agencies, disapproving teachers, and heterosexual parents who weren’t sure they wanted their offspring having sleepovers with friends whose two daddies would put the kids to bed. Now the mainstreaming of gay life has made adopting simpler, less controversial, and the number of people doing it has reached critical mass. “This issue has reached its tipping point,” suggests Scott Goldsmith, a clinical assistant professor of psychiatry at Weill Cornell Medical College. “Children are a far more visible part of gay culture.”

Inevitably, all these families with two moms or two dads are having a dramatic effect on gay expectations—and gay and lesbian identity. When younger gays begin to consider possible future relationships, they must judge potential partners in a different light—are they parent-worthy and do they have the same feelings about progeny? For older gays, especially those in established relationships, the question of children has arisen suddenly. Across town, gays are debating the pros and cons of becoming, of all things, breeders.

“When I was 24, what your life looked like it could become, for an upper-middle-class white gay guy with cultural aspirations, was a lot of clubbing, a lot of dating, and a lot of fucking and a lot more fucking,” observes the writer Daniel Mendelsohn. “We had some vague idea that if you got lucky, you might find someone to settle with far on the horizon.

“Now people in their twenties are looking at a cultural smorgasbord that includes not only Sunday nights dancing till six in the morning and taking ecstasy but also a time when you might get married and have children. And that is not all that different from the paradigm that all my straight peers were dealing with—that at some time they would settle.”

[hunter112]

Someone once said that obesity tended to run in families, even when the children were adopted.

I suppose in households where there is a family bed, as well as a family dinner table, then the comparison to sexuality would be valid.

I don't have the statistics to back it up, but I'd guess most homosexual people came from heterosexual parents.

[scripter]

Some of the links refer to a gay gene, and still, none have been found. Even Simon Levay admitted his research didn't find any such gene.

Yet you missed my main point, which is the major factor in determining homosexuality is environment. It's as if you didn't read the links, just some of the titles!

I don't believe there is a ethical argument outside of specific religious traditions.

There are a myriad of health reasons:

• Cure for AIDS: Abstinence  FR 
• Hazardous to Your Health - The Risks of Homosexuality  FR 
• The Health Risks of Gay Sex 
• Researcher Warns of Homosexuals Seeking HIV Infection  FR 
• Modelling the Impact of HIV Disease on Mortality in Gay and Bisexual Men 
• The Negative Health Effects of Homosexuality 
• Scientific Evidence on Condom Effectiveness for Sexually Transmitted Disease (STD) Prevention 
• Health and Homosexuality  FR 
• Unsafe healthcare "drives spread of African HIV" 
• African sexual health programmes "misguided" 
• African Women and AIDS 
• Rise of Internet Fuels Fears of AIDS Resurgence 
• Kinsolving: "Will Bishop-elect Robinson and his male lover be tested for HIV-AIDS?"  FR 
• Homosexual AIDS Claims Cause Controversy  FR 
• Bug Chasers: The men who long to be HIV+  FR 
• Acting Up  FR 
• U.S. sees HIV cases rise among gay, bisexual men  FR 
• The American Journal of Public Health Highlights Risks of Homosexual Practices  FR 
• Many HIV positive don't tell 
• Anal Sex Largest Cause of HIV in Africa  FR 
• Gay health statistics 
• Gay Men Meeting Online Contracting Syphilis Faster 
• Syphilis Cases On The Rise In Bay Area  FR 
• New Skin Infection Concerns Doctors, Activists  FR 
• Anal Cancer and YOU 
• Compassionate Society Should Discourage Deadly Homosexual Behavior 
• Anything But Gay: The Deadly and Dangerous Homosexual Lifestyle  FR 
• Desensitizing America, Part I: AIDS Sensitivity Training  FR 
• Homosexuals Demand Legalization of Sex With Strangers...  FR 
• Is This Gay Behavior Sick? 
• Just the Facts: AIDS & the Homosexual Lifestyle! 
• Modelling the impact of HIV disease on mortality in gay and bisexual men 
• Sharing Disease is Not a Civil Right 
• Sodomy: A Public Health Risk  FR 
• Syphilis in gay men raises AIDS concern 
• Syphilis outbreak among L.A. gay men in 2002 leads to... 
• The Many Myths of AIDS 
• The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS: A Nine-Year Retrospective of Fear and (Mostly) Loathing  FR 
• The plague abettors 
• U.S. HIV and AIDS cases reported through December 2000 
• Why Isn't Homosexuality Considered A Disorder On The Basis Of Its Medical Consequences? 
• With Fears Fading, More Gays Spurn Old Preventive Message 
• World AIDS Day: Reflections on the Pandemic  FR 
• California to track HIV cases by code AIDS-delaying drugs mask disease's spread 
• SF doctors report "startling" increase of syphilis 
• Homosexual behavior increases risk of AIDS 
• Sexual Politics And Scientific Logic: The Issue Of Homosexuality 

That's all of my time you'll get for now.

[scripter]

Let's not forget the sexual abuse these poor kids will certainly go through as the pedophiles of the world enter and exit their lives.

Worth repeating.

[NicknamedBob]

"I don't have the statistics to back it up, but I'd guess most homosexual people came from heterosexual parents. "

Sure. So naturally, homosexuals, being unable to propagate, will disappear in a generation or two, (unless there's some other way that homosexuality happens?)

[GulliverSwift]

Not to mention psychological, biological, and societal implications.

The fact that homosexuality is not only non-natural but directly in opposition to nature is an important factor, too.

[whereasandsoforth]

""Again the primary question is "Why should they?"
I don't believe there is a ethical argument outside of specific religious traditions.""


Why should they? I don't suppose they should deny themselves anything that makes them happy and doesn't hurt others. There's the rub. Don't bring children into the mix. My ability to admire and accept homosexuals is greatly thwarted by their inability to accept their lot in life an go on about their business. By definition, their existance is defined solely by one thing and that is sex. That is not a healthy thing, as facts explain. Just leave the children alone.

[hunter112]

...homosexuals, being unable to propagate, will disappear in a generation or two, (unless there's some other way that homosexuality happens?)

I don't know how homosexuality happens. I can imagine that if there is genetics involved, it could be some sort of recessive genes, just the way that traits that do not contribute to survival keep appearing in a population. It might be that environmental circumstances produce homosexuality, and it might be a combination of these things.

All I know for sure is, that outlawing homosexuality has never worked. There are those here who think that taking every civil right away from gay people, and stuffing them all in prison will make their own kids think twice about it. It's just never happened, its only a question of how deeply underground homosexuality has to hide itself. I'd rather know that my kid's teacher is openly gay, rather than find out some other way.

[NicknamedBob]

"...leaders believe that fixing this problem is as easy as accepting the perverse as normal..."

People call it a lot of things. The most most insidious component is perversion. (If Homosexuality is okay, what's wrong with NAMBLA?, et cetera.) Once you start down this path, there's no limit to the human degradation you can find.

I remember examining a book once titled Perversion, I believe the writer's contention was that a certain amount of unnatural interest in children, etc. was okay for the Human Species, as it kept us from disintegrating into the kind of society that lions have. (The new male kills the offspring of the previous male, as in 'her live-in boyfriend.')

Disturbing thought, but even if true, it only proves equally true that this tendency needs to be controlled.

[EdReform]

"... and certainly the testimonial evidence from lesbians and gays is overwhelming."

Yes, let's consider What Homosexuals Say About Homosexuals - (Is This Gay Behavior Sick?):

"Let´s look at gay behavior as defined by two gays, Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen Ph.D., authors of After the Ball: How America will Conquer its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90´s (1989).

In Chapter Six, they outline “ten categories of misbehavior,” drawn from their own experiences, wide reading and thousands of hours of conversation with hundreds of other gays. Their contention is that the gay lifestyle, not gay sexuality mind you, “is the pits.” They want gays to improve their image by addressing “what is wrong with a lot of gays.” (276)

What follows are some highlights. As you read this, ask yourself if there is another human community, including the Mafia that could make these generalizations about itself. Ask yourself if we haven´t caught this disease, or at least the sniffles.

•  The authors say “a surprisingly high percentage” of pathological liars and con men are gay. This results from a natural habit of self-concealment, and leads to a stubborn self-deception about one´s own gayness and its implications.

•  They say gays tend to reject all forms of morality and value judgments. Gay morality boils down to “If it feels good, I´ll do it!” If a gay feels like seducing a trusted friend´s lover, he´ll do it, justifying it as an act of “sexual freedom” and the friend be damned.

•  They say gays suffer from a “narcissistic” personality disorder and they give this clinical description: “pathological self absorption, a need for constant attention and admiration, lack of empathy or concern for others, quickly bored, shallow, interested in fads, seductive, overemphasis on appearance, superficially charming, promiscuous, exploitative, preoccupied with remaining youthful, relationships alternate between over idealization and devaluation.”

•  As an example of this narcissism, the authors say “a very sizable proportion of gay men” who have been diagnosed HIV positive continue to have unprotected sex.

•  They say the majority of gays are extremely promiscuous and self-indulgent. They must continuously up the ante to achieve arousal. This begins with alcohol and drugs and includes such “forbidden” aspects of sex as wallowing in filth (fetishism and coprophilia) and sadomasochism, which involves violence.

•  They say many gays indulge in sex in public bathrooms and think it is antigay harassment when it is stopped. Many think they have a right to importune straight males, including children.

•  Many gays are “single minded sexual predators” fixated on youth and physical beauty alone. When it comes to the old or ugly, gays are “the real queerbashers.” Disillusioned themselves, they are cynical about love.

•  “Relationships between gay men don´t usually last very long.” They quickly tire of their partners and fall victim to temptation. The “cheating ratio of ‘married´ gay males, given enough time, approaches 100%.”

•  Even friendships are based on the sexual test and hard to sustain. Unattractive gay men find it nearly impossible to find a friend, let alone a lover.

•  The authors say gays tend to deny reality in various ways: wishful thinking, paranoia, illogic, emotionalism and embracing crackpot ideas."

[NicknamedBob]

"Once you start down this path, there's no limit to the human degradation you can find."

• They say gays tend to reject all forms of morality and value judgments. Gay morality boils down to “If it feels good, I´ll do it!” If a gay feels like seducing a trusted friend´s lover, he´ll do it, justifying it as an act of “sexual freedom” and the friend be damned.

Like I said.

[hunter112]

My question is why should monongamous same sex behavior be changed?

Biggest reason for most posters on the homosexuality threads is the current interpretation of their religious texts. All of the "health" issues are window dressing over the religious issues, and the "ick" factor.

Thanks for being a voice of moderation and reason on this thread.

[EdReform]

Ping

[whereasandsoforth]

Well, in that case your existance is defined solely by sex as well, after all what is the definition of "heterosexual"?

What in the world makes you think I am a heterosexual? Aren't gays allowed to think clearly about the issue?

[MeekOneGOP]

[MeekOneGOP]

barf alert!

MICHAEL STUPARYK/TORONTO STAR

Michael Stark, left, and Michael Lashner pop champagne
and kiss after their wedding ceremony yesterday.
Leshner called the ruling, "Day One for millions of gays
and lesbians around the world."

Gay couple married after ruling
(Toronto, Canada)

B.C. court OK's gay marriage -
first gay couple legally married in British Columbia

Gays Flock to Divorce Court

Same-sex unions in 'News' -
Dallas Morning News to publish FREE
same sex unions announcements

The Media's Gay Mafia "Queers" the News

Useful Idiot Caption-A-Rama: Special Gay Pride Edition!

Sexual Suicide: The Rebellion of Homosexuality Causes Untold Suffering

Gay frat seeks approval from UT-San Antonio
(See #39 for some humor)

[ArGee]

Yes, even twenty years ago, you could find gay parents who, one way or another, had acquired children,

At that time you would have been supported if you rescued the children from the destructive home. Today you would be villified.

Shalom.

[scripter]

Biggest reason for most posters on the homosexuality threads is the current interpretation of their religious texts.

You're going to ignore what I say anyway, but it has to be said:

You're wrong.

Most posters on the homosexuality threads are well informed of the issues and we don't post and run, like you keep doing.

As I keep saying and folks like you try to ignore, thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle. The experts state the major factor in determining homosexuality is environment and the above links go into some detail on the issue. The environment factor is supported by the fact that thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle.

Those are the facts. Again, if you have any information from reputable scientists or researchers that haven't already been debunked and they state otherwise, then post them. Otherwise you're just supporting the gay agenda.

Homosexuals need true friends willing to help, not folks who are always encouraging a very destructive lifestyle