Gay With Children (Barf Alert)

New York Metro Magazine ^ | 11/3/03 | David Usborne

[scripter]

All of the "health" issues are window dressing over the religious issues, and the "ick" factor.

You don't speak for me, hunter112. Do you deny the reality of the health issues surrounding the homosexual lifestyle? They are listed in post 23.

[scripter]

Argh! Not those pics again! :-)

[gcruse]

Thanks for being a voice of moderation and reason on this thread.

From the looks of his profile, ie, no such poster, it looks
like moderation and reason are no match for ideologues.

[scripter]

From the looks of his profile, ie, no such poster, it looks like moderation and reason are no match for ideologues.

Unfortunately for those pushing the gay agenda, they are no match for those pushing just the facts. Every time somebody comes along pushing the gay agenda, trying to argue against the facts, they just end up misrepresenting what was said or trying to act like they read what was posted.

If I'm wrong in my position I want somebody to show me with something other than "I think this or that," because my position is based on the latest research and I won't change my position based on what's currently politically correct.

[scripter]

I don't know how homosexuality happens. I can imagine that if there is genetics involved, it could be some sort of recessive genes, just the way that traits that do not contribute to survival keep appearing in a population. It might be that environmental circumstances produce homosexuality, and it might be a combination of these things.

If you read the latest research you'll have a really good idea how it happens. If genetics were, somehow involved, do we then accept and allow any behavior that can be traced back to genetics? Do we just let everyone do whatever they want to anyone, all in the name of, "Hey I can't help it, it's genetic."

[gcruse]

If I'm wrong in my position I want somebody to
 show me with something other than "I think this or that,"

Well, here, we just ban your account.  How's that?

[scripter]

From what I understand, you push the gay agenda you get banned. You try to come back as somebody banned, you get banned again. You have more than one account on FR, you get banned. Again, if somebody cares to present facts or research on this issue that wasn't debunked within hours of it's release, I'm interested in reading it.

[gcruse]

I don't know that any of that was the case. I got here too late to read any of the bannee's posts. All I saw was someone complimenting him/her on their moderation and reasonableness. Naturally, that not only gets you banned,apparently, but all your posts get nuked.

[scripter]

I believe the posts get nuked because of their content. That is, making statements that are known to be false and pushing an agenda. The account was possibly banned for any of the reasons I mentioned above or some other reason... dunno.

If folks are interested in open debate with just the facts without pushing any agendas, then fine. That's kinda hard to do for those who already broke the rules and got banned, and it's really hard for them to come back if they covertly keep trying to do so. I don't know if that was the case today, but I know it's previously been the case.

[gcruse]

If folks are interested in open debate with just the facts without pushing any agendas, then fine.

I think you are being too noble.  The choice
of facts one presents in debate are determined
by his agenda.  The fact that you seem to think
you are not pushing an agenda is kinda funny.

[scripter]

Facts don't have an agenda. Many of the facts I've listed and others have listed are from pro-gay publications.

I encourage everyone to read the summary of After the Ball: How America will Conquer its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90´s by Kirk and Madsen. Here's one summary that I've verified myself after purchasing the book:

The Homosexual Propaganda and Media Manipulation Game...

If you have facts that haven't been debunked, I'm interested in them.

[scripter]

You can also check out post 32 by EdReform. Hate to ping you again, ER, but I mentioned you and felt obligated to do so.

[EdReform]

No problem, Scrip! Pings are always appreciated!

[EdReform]

"If you have facts that haven't been debunked, I'm interested in them."

Ditto.

[EdReform]

Bumping #40

[ArGee]

I'm glad you guys keep posting the facts, but I fear that facts are less and less important to today's world.

I would have to agree with gcruse a little. I don't think facts have an agenda, but your point of view colors how you interpret the facts. It's easy to provide examples, but I'm not sure it's necessary.

The book of Judges in the Old Testament of the Bible keeps repeating the phrase, "In those days, there was no King in Israel, and everyone did what was right in his own eyes." Often this is interpreted to mean that people did whatever they pleased. But I think it means that people did their best with their limited capacity to discern right from wrong. They had their perceptions, their viewpoints, and their facts, but human beings are incapable of seeing ultimate reality. It's always filtered through our perceptions. Because of this, all our attempts to discern right from wrong on our own fail and fail miserably.

The most important fact is that you need a basis for reality outside of human reason. You need G-d to properly interpret facts. Without Him, you're taking a firm stand on quicksand.

This isn't the same as "responding to the ick factor" or "basing beliefs on an outdated book" but I understand why people who don't have G-d as their foundation would be confused on that issue.

So I'll accept gcruse's statement. I am pushing an agenda. The agenda is truth and it is based on facts, but it is even more based on G-d. He is my ultimate agenda.

Shalom.

[scripter]

I would have to agree with gcruse a little.

So do I, yet he started out on this thread calling some folks ideologues which isn't true of me or anybody on the ping list. I almost said the exact same thing to gcruse:

So I'll accept gcruse's statement. I am pushing an agenda. The agenda is truth and it is based on facts...

...But the reference to ideologues gave me pause that it wasn't a good use of my time to really get into my agenda. I'm open to the facts, all of 'em. Otherwise, well, that kind of life is not the life for me.