I Don’t Believe What I’m Hearing; Has the army got its head up its collective tushie or what?

Washington Dispatch ^ | 11-05-03 | Jon Connolly

[Brian S]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Exclusive commentary by Jon Connolly

Nov 5, 2003

Has the army got its head up its collective tushie or what?

The Pentagon, actually staff judge advocate for the 4th Infantry Division, has charged Lt. Col. Allen B. West with communicating a threat and aggravated assault during an interrogation and has requested an Article 32 hearing as prelude to a possible court martial. Don’t these lawyers understand we’re at war?

You can bet your life -- which is exactly what the troops in Iraq do every day -- it’s literally a crap shoot who lives, who dies, or who is wounded.

It’s not like West actually harmed the prisoner … he just scared the truth out of him and, as a result saved some American troopers lives and effectively slowed down the terrorism around Tikrit.

According to Rowan Scarborough in the Washington Times, West told them in an e-mail this week that he was desperate to gain information to protect his soldiers. They face almost daily attacks as they work to impose security around Saba al Boor, near Tikrit, Saddam‘s hometown.

The story continued, “West’s lawyer, Neal Puckett, said the prosecutor has offered Col. West two choices: quit now, short of his 20-year retirement eligibility ,,, or face criminal proceedings that could lead to a trial. The assault charges carry a maximum penalty of eight years in prison.

“Puckett is a retired Marine Corps lieutenant colonel who, as a judge advocate and military judge, handled more than 1,000 criminal cases. He said it is not unusual to suggest an officer quit rather than face charges.”

The Army relieved West of his battalion command, which effectively ends his career.

The way I got the story is: West troops were unable to get information from an individual (an Iraqi policeman turned in by an informant) who supposedly had made a comment that ‘more Americans were going to die.’ One can only suppose that the colonel took this personally since he was the battalion commander.

The Iraqi was not forthcoming so West drew his weapon, explained to the man that he was a poor shot and fired a round into a nearby barrel … the man was somewhat chastened, but still not forthcoming … so West fired another round a bit closer to the man, noting that his marksmanship was improving and he MIGHT be able to put the next round between the man’s eyes.

That noticeably loosened the man’s tongue and “West said the detainee then provided the names of two accomplices and told of another planned sniper attack the next day.

"I have never denied what happened and have always been brutally honest," said Col. West. "I accept responsibility for the episode, but my intent was to scare this individual and keep my soldiers out of a potential ambush. There were no further attacks from that town. We ... apprehended two other conspirators (a third fled town) and found out one of the conspirators was the father of a man we had detained for his Saddam Fedeyeen affiliation.

"(The Iraqi policeman [the detainee]) and his accomplices were a threat to our soldiers and the method was not right, but why should I lose 20 years of service or be forced into prison for protecting my men?"

The military has seen fit to put professionals and reservists in harm’s way and, since they’re fighting a no-holds-barred insurgent war in which the ‘bad guys’ don’t play by the rules of the Geneva Convention, it behooves the leaders to make the extra effort to save the lives of their troopers … particularly given the fact that troops continue to die almost daily.

Lt. Col. West did what was right and did what was necessary to save his troops … he should not be punished because the stuffed shirts in the judge advocate’s office and the Pentagon failed to support him.

[TexKat]

Thank you MnM for the ping. Marauder thanks for the phone # for the comment line to the Whitehouse. I placed the call in support of Lt. Col. West.

Is Iraq the stage for the war on terrorism or is it not. Are our men and women just over there to ask them why don't you like us, while they are being killed?

May 1st 2003 may have been the end of our major battle in Iraqi freedom, but it appears it was the beginning for the terrorist and American haters jihad.

[KC_for_Freedom]

The UCMJ supercedes the Constitution, for those who actually are involved in combat.All involved swore an oath to abide by the UCMJ,and knowingly placed themselves outside civilian courts.

Yes, but under UCMJ he could be found guilty and given no punishment whatsoever.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

This story disturbs both of us deeply. We agree.. what the hell is wrong with the brass on this one! This man got what he needed out of the prisoner in order to protect his troops. PERIOD.

This is WAR! Not some MAMBY PAMBY occassion were the troops can afford to stroke and pet a prisoner and feed them cake and punch.

Man, I hope Col. West will NOT quit.. I pray to God he stays the course and fights this. Otherwise he has lost his retirement and everything he has fought for and stood for. Surely every person sitting on a panel will stand with him. This just reeks of injustice.

At a time when TERRORISTS are snipe'ing our troops, a few more people NEED guns pointed at their heads.. HELL .. they need BULLETS put through their heads in order to show we mean business!!! For GOD'S sake.. we are losing people over there at an alarming rate!!

This is pure BS!! The Col. needs a MEDAL for showing RESTRAINT!! Then one for showing how an interogation should be done!

[Stone Mountain]

If Bush is made aware of this matter and doesn't remedy the situation I will lose all respect for him and his administration.

You think Bush isn't aware of this matter? C'mon...

[archy]

If Bush is made aware of this matter and doesn't remedy the situation I will lose all respect for him and his administration.

You think Bush isn't aware of this matter? C'mon...

Well, there's an easy way to make sure....

Allen B. West
for U.S. Congress

[Hannity4prez]

bump

[kilowhskey]

@33: "This is not really a matter subject to civilian debate, as the conditions and conduct of war are not in the civilian realm of influence."

Not so. First of all, there is the principle of civilian control of the military. Next, if you are conversant with the Uniform Code of Military Justice, you should know that it was implemented by act of Congress (civilian) in 1951. Civilians, especially those with prior service, have both a right and responsibility to stand up for warriors who put their men ahead of their careers.

KW Myers
Proud to be an Old Dogface

[epow]

You think Bush isn't aware of this matter? C'mon...

There is an incredible amount of activity going on every hour of every day around the entire world which demands Bush's attention, and it is quite possible this incident concerning one army officer in Iraq has not been reported to him. If Col. West's case becomes a national topic of conversation, and I saw it discussed on Fox News this morning, I'm sure he will be quickly brought up to speed by his staff if he hasn't been before now.

That's why I suggested calling or writng the White House about this matter. I'm not Bush's most ardent fan by any means, especially concerning some domestic issues. But I do believe he is a decent, honest man who would not approve of prosecuting Col. West given the circumstances of his "offense". I may be mistaken, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt until I see something to prove otherwise.

[ZULU]

"Has the army got its head up its collective tushie or what?


YES


"Don’t these lawyers understand we’re at war? "

NO.

Write Bush and your Congressprostitutes immediately on this issue. We won the one on Reagan and we can, should and MUST win this one too.

West is a hero. These monsters are not soldiers captured on the battlefield. They are terrorists and gangsters.

To expect reciprocal treatment for OUR troops when captured as an explaination for this is ludicrous. Look at what happened to Lynch.

HANG 'EM HIGH!!!

[A. Patriot]

Whoever brought these charges against West should be charged with aiding and abetting the enemy, or even treason.

Sadam has a friend in the JAG.

And I'm sure these JAG officers have been in combat on the front lines?

[Stone Mountain]

He knows. He's the Commander-in-Chief. Any time an issue regarding the military garners this much attention, you can be sure he's been briefed on it by his advisors. Especially when it involves an officer in Iraq.

[Smokin' Joe]

"Has the army got its head up its collective tushie or what? YES

Maybe, and maybe not. Faced with Vietnam style protesters, anti Bush media, and generally anti-American (kneejerk Democrat) Media, Tha Administration has to avoid anything that looks like a coverup, and desperately has to avoid giving the antiwar faction anything like a MyLai incident to run with....

If, on the other hand, they play this like they have so far, and Americans raise such unholy Hell that the Colonel's plight becomes national news, complete with strong poll results, etc which show America behind the Colonel, policy can be morphed by pressure of popular demand, and the bleeding hearts won't be able to do diddley-squat about it.

Just a thought. Give 'em Hell.

[viaveritasvita]

Here's another good one Grok.

Brian/all: Can someone give me a SHORT explain in layman's terms of which military rule/law/whatever LTC West violated? I'm also interested to know how and when the Rules of Engagement may have changed regarding this situation.

Praying for West and his family -- that a way is found to exonerate him and give him the $$ due him for nearly 20 years service.

<><

[teeman8r]

as i slip into my asbestos boxers, i am amazed at the flippant regard to military conduct due to a war being on...

apparently, the ends of american lives being saved, justifies any action in the interrogation room of civilians alleged to have information...

by admission, the behavior violated certain code, to what extent will be determined by military court, the charges will be defended against and a verdict will be rendered. the costs should therefore still justify the means, and probably will in his eyes, and the in the eyes of many posting here, including myself.

to what degree do we allow such means... dragging the family of interrogated in and plugging them with a bullet... application of burning cigarettes to the eyelids until information is obtained... there are limits, some see them as handcuffs, but limits are drawn for good reason, war can cause civility to slip into chaos... just look at the passion displayed on this site, and i only take the opposing view for it needs to be said...

the american military is the most powerful force in the world, and may need to be handcuffed, yes, even in time of war...

we are not the animals of which we fight. we are americans. we are better than all, need to uphold the standard for all to follow.

flame on.

i believe i may have behaved similarly, and if i did, i would except whatever punishment came my way, for the ends were worth it...

could i have gotten the information by explaining if attacks happened, he would be an accomplace after the fact and held accountable to stiffer iraqi penalties... maybe, i would have tried and definitely placed the troops in that area on even higher alerts...

[sarasmom]

That would be the best outcome, IMHO.

[Smokin' Joe]

No one hooked a field phone generator to this guy's tender parts. They were merely having an intimidating discussion of marksmanship.

[XHogPilot]

Bump for action!

Allen West Defense Fund c/o Angela West
6823 Coleman Drive
Ft. Hood, TX 76544

[Ready4Freddy]

What RULE did we shoot them under?

We CAUGHT them, and we SHOT them, under RULE .303, SIR!

[Wombat101]

Whatever happened to the application of electricity to the testes? P.S. this kind of thing happened every day under Saddam, wasn't Col. West just being "Politically Correct" and interrogating Iraqi prisoners in a method that took into acount their cultural sensibilities? Or should he have fed the man head first into an wood chipper like Saddam's boys would have? Col. West deserves a f**king medal, not an article 32.

[LisaAnne]

Thanks for the link. Signed and bump.