Replies

re: your reply #5 ("... wish W would figure this out...")

maybe he does. Maybe being the leader of the most powerful nation on earth that is founded on principles of fairness and justice, he feels compelled to at least give what voices of moderation might yet exist within Islam one more opportunity to wise up and get their religion and culture out of their own medieval darkness. There is no need and no gain from telling Islam and world that they can never defeat us and that we will destroy them if they persist in their current modes... and can anyone doubt that We the People could not completely vanquish them if we put our minds and complete energies to it? I also ask you the following - if we are then so strong as to be invincible (relative to this threat from murderous vermin who hijack a religion) as to be able to destroy them at will, are we not then strong enough to simultaneously offer them a way out of their self-constructed tunnel of darkness (while patiently but inevitably defeating them)?

This is not a novel concept, nor is it spin... historically, look at what we have done with those enemies whom we have defeated, starting with how we treated the south from the civil war, to the way we rebuilt our enemies from world war II, even to the current day where we try to develop a basis of cooperation with the Russians. If anything, America has consistently shown that the best way to win a war is to make sure you don't have to fight it again once you've beaten your foe... but destroy him completely nonetheless if he proves to not be capable of accepting defeat.

Time will tell whether fundamentalist Islam will recognize that it can never win against any nation whose way of life is based on freedom, and whose sons and daughters are willing to fight for that freedom. But then, time will tell whether Islam can recognize this cancer within itself before it dies from self-consumption.

Remember, there was once a time in our own Christian history when our own kind hacked each other to bits simply because one side thought the other's use of an intercessionary priesthood was antithetical to the understanding of Christ. Islam today is what Islam was back in 632 when their self-professed prophet began his historical march. The only way Islam can survive is if the moderates win.

When George Bush offers his hand in moderation to Islam, I do not scoff at him, nor hold him as being ignorant of what is obviously a crisis within the ranks of that religion. Truly, Islam is in crisis, and if the voices of reason within Islam are not given a chance to rise up and do something about the insanity within their house, then that religion will self-destruct from their own contradictions and horrors.

I can't remember who said the following - Bernard Lewis or Samuel Huntington - but Islam stands in danger of having the suicide bomber become the metaphor that best describes it. President Bush - with the weight of our nation behind him - offers the muslims one last chance to change that.

If they fail to grasp this last chance, and continue on their path of war, then so be it... they will be utterly destroyed. And at that time, History will note that we the object of their hatred offered them one humane chance to change their destiny, and they spurned it by opting to charge over the cliffs like a herd of lemmings.

Juan
CGVet58

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Of course what you say is correct, but I am very concerned by what seems to be either a lack of, or an extreme reticence on the part of, moderate Muslims.

Of course they exist. They certainly exist 'round here in Northern NJ, my daughter's friends has many Muslim friends on her swim team. I'm sure that bathing suit/swim team thing is not condoned by extremist Imams.

I'm sure most of these folks are just as frightened of terrorists as we all are. Unfortunately they seem to be more than off-set by the efforts of such as CAIR.

I will note that my impression is that the moderates I'm thinking of are mostly immigrants, while the extremists are just home-grown America haters.

My other big concern involves your statement "[A nation]whose sons and daughters are willing to fight for that freedom." Our really BIG problem, bigger than any Islamic or other kind of terrorists, are the terrorists aiders & abettors of the editorial pages of the NY Times, etc. These people, with their continued assualts on all American values, and their over-weaning desire to turn us into a nation of victims and supplicants is a greater danger to us than any other.

Unfortunately, the voices of moderation within Islam are mushirk, i.e., they are not true Muslims at all, according to their own authorities. This word has all kinds of interesting connotations. It is from the word shirk, which means, "to associate any created thing in the universe with Allah." Hence, a mushirk is basically an idolator, but the word means much more than that. It also means "polytheist" and does duty in the Muslim lexicon for "heretic." A moderate Muslim would be one who renounces the use of force as an evangelistic tool or as a means to defend Islam. However, to do so would mean he is also renouncing the authority of Al Quran, the Hadith, the Qiyas, fatwahs announced by legions of muftis, other religious authorities, and the entire tradition of Islam. Thus, for a Muslim to renounce jihad, he would become no better than his ancient ancestors during the time of "the ignorance," i.e., pre-Islamic times, when 360 idols of stone were worshipped at the Kaaba.
Furthermore, Muslims are taught from childhood what I like to call "the Litany." They live daily with constant conscious and unconscious reminders of past injustices committed against them by the "Franks" (Christian Europeans) and other non-Muslims: (1)the "land-grabbing" Crusades, (2) being driven out of their semi-mythological paradise of Andalusia (Spain), (3) the destruction of the Caliphate by the heathen Mongols, (4) the 19th Cen. Frankish imperialism, which impoverished all the Arab nations, (5) and, finally the continuation of the Crusades, which is how they view the creation Erets Israel. The average Muslim is fully convinced the Jewish international captialitst and their Frankish allies have nothing but evil designs for them. This cabal of Shaytan intends to rob them of their oil wealth and turn their daughters into harlots. If you think I am dreaming this up (it does sound rather ridiculous, does it not?), all you have to do is surf Muslim websites and read threads left there by Muslims. If you think Western education will moderate Muslim fanaticism, think again. Many Al Qaeda leaders have Western education, just look at many of the 9-11 highjackers! No. Fanaticism and the desire to avenge past wrongs by taking up the sword are deeply ingrained in the Muslim psyche and dear to their hearts.
It will take more than just exposure to Western education and ideals to bring Islam even into a 19th century mode of thought, it will take a radical transformation of the whole region. Until the people there rise up and say "NO" to the political and religious authorites who teach them hatred and vengence, we will never see this transformation take place.