$85,000 salaries: Teaching pays off

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | October 26, 2003 | D. AILEEN DODD

[US admirer]

Another brilliant reply.

[ladylib]

That type of thing happens all the time. My brother has a friend who works for a major auction house. A friend of hers was ordered to set up an auction on the internet. She told her superiors it wouldn't be successful for one reason or another. They said "Do It." She did, it failed, and she got fired.

[Temple Owl]

"Perhaps I was amazingly lucky, but I went to a public high school in Texas that didn't really have trouble with equipment; sure, we didn't have an indoor pool or clay tennis court like a nearby wealthy private school, but what the hell did we need with things like that, anyway?

They don't, yet in Delaware County (Philly subs) a number of public high schools have them. They are very expensive and it shows up in the tax bill. The teachers make up to $80,000 --not counting benefits. This is for about 190 days work. Some of the schools are very good while others are very substandard.

School vouchers would even out the playing field.

[Tribune7]

Some of the schools are very good while others are very substandard.

Actually some of the schools are quasi-adequate.

[BushCountry]

Actually, most can not teach. When I was teaching, maybe one in twenty had the majority of students wanting to attend class and actually learned something.

It takes a special person to light up a classroom and change someone's life forever. Ask almost everyone you know and in most cases they will only remember only one special teacher.

I lit up a classroom (there were only a few teachers in the school who did this, I am being honest), made it fun, and taught difficult subjects, electronics and computer repair/networking. I gave up on teaching because the deck was stacked against the teachers and change. The hours spent trying to secure funding (grant writing), inventing an electronics/computer repair/networking program (this was in 1994 and was one of a few in the public school system at the time) from the ground up, teaching students how to study again, etc... was all for naught. Some of my students cried when I left (tears of happiness?).

[debg]

I spent my first 20 working years in the corporate world before leaving to become a teacher. Frankly, I'm glad I did. I figure I work 20+ MORE hours a week but personal satisfaction couldn't be higher. I really enjoy working with the kids and watching them succeed. I also enjoy being the rare republican counter-balance in the land of liberals.

I have a M.S. degree plus work toward a PhD but my salary is NO where near the numbers being stated for Georgia or other high paying states. There are secretaries in this city that make twice what I do and they don't have degrees. Is it fair? No. But I chose my profession and I'm stickin to it. There's more to life than money.

I teach high school (3 preps: 5 classes @ 1.5 hrs each block). I teach technology and spend most all of that time on my feet in the computer lab. I'm the department chair for tech and get a supplement for that, but spend most of my planning time administering the equipment as well as helping the staff out of their tech jams or training them. Nights and weekends - I grade, plan and administer the school's website for no extra pay. I also work for admin in grant writing and other special projects at no extra pay. We all pull together and have a very successful school.

On the other hanb, I spent the first seven years teaching in an inner city school - teaching 6 preps from intro to A.P. CompSci. I worked with teachers who had "given up" because their hands were tied by liberal discipline policies. I saw high administrative turnover because they couldn't control the day to day violence similar to terrorism's hit and run tactics. I was shellshocked by the time I left that school.

Both experiences have formed my attitude today. I regret the bad rap that hard-working teachers garner due to inept liberal and ineffective administrations and the misdeeds of a few. I regret that the ACLU has its teeth in the school system where students have more power than those in their charge. I regret that many have left the system rather than fight to correct it. I regret that illegal immigrant children flood the system and eat away at services for legal students. But, I do not regret becoming a teacher and stay to fight the malaise that has crept into the system.

[SaveTheChief]

Sounds like we have similar stories.

You made my point. It takes someone special to really reach children and make them interested in learning. In my opinion, children have a natural desire to learn but when something is presented in a very cold and dispassionate way, it is very difficult (for anyone) to pay attention. Teachers who are not passionate, not looking for ways to really reach their students are usually not successful. Thanks to the NEA and other teacher's unions, there is nothing we can do to replace these folks with teachers who give a darn.

[pt17]

There were a few of us who really loved teaching, were good at it, loved working with the kids and greatly enjoyed putting in the long hours. Many of the teachers I worked with; however, were just putting in their class time, sitting out their tenure and trying to get into administration or trying to be NEA bigwigs.

[Xenalyte]

A warm body can complete the requirements to become a teacher, but not everyone has the skills or passion to be a good teacher.

Well put! You're definitely one of the latter, sounds like. :)

Tell me this: is there a difference between teaching orchestra and teaching band? Down here, we were a band during football season, but an orchestra during concert season. However, our teachers just called themselves our "band directors" the whole year.

[SaveTheChief]

Tell me this: is there a difference between teaching orchestra and teaching band? Down here, we were a band during football season, but an orchestra during concert season. However, our teachers just called themselves our "band directors" the whole year.

A modern orchestra is a group with a core majority of string instruments (violins, violas, celli, and basses). A symphony orchestra is typically a large string group with a few of each wind and brass instruments added, along with a percussion section. Typical instrumentation has a wind section of two to four oboes, flutes, clarinets, bassoons, trumpets, french horns, trombones, and one tuba. A percussion section is staffed with about a half dozen people. A typical professional orchestra will have a harp player or two on staff, as well as someone who plays piano.

A school band, military band, marching band, concert band, symphonic band, or jazz band typically has no string instruments, and if there are string instruments in any of these groups, it is an exception rather than a rule. Some of these bands include instruments not found in an orchestra. Saxophones, baritone horns (or euphonium), and sousaphones are expamples of these.

I don't understand the confusion here in Texas, as a band and orchestra are two distinctly different entities. Where I am from, a band director would not dare to call himself an orchestra director, nor would an orchestra director call himself a band director (kind of a little war they have going there). We cringe at such things... lol

In inner-city Birmingham, I was simply known as the "string-man". That's an entirely different story.

As for the difference in teaching band and orchestra, you do need to use different techniques. A band teacher needs to be able to tell what is happening in a student's mouth, and be able to recognize what he cannot see. A string teacher has everything out in front of him and can easily see when a student needs to work on technique. Other than that, music is music. A talented musician and teacher can teach band, choir and orchestra equally well if he so desires.

[Xenalyte]

Come to think of it, we did gain strings during orchestra season - we had an upright bass and violas and such. However, since that was like 20 years ago, I can't remember what those kids did during marching season. I don't think they were flag corps - those were usually girls, and I don't recall any female upright-bass players from back then. Hmm.

To complicate matters, the bands that met at different periods of the school day had different names, and the classes (except for second period) started off bad and got better as the day progressed. First period was for people who wanted to be in band but were just lousy, and I can't remember what that was called. Second period was stage (jazz) band, the exception to the better-is-later rule. Sixth period was the coveted Viking Winds period. We had plain band, stage band, something third period, Viking Orchestra, Viking Symphonic and Viking Winds (the best).

[SaveTheChief]

Hmm.... Makes me wonder what those strings did during the all too important marching season. Don't get me wrong. I like marching bands. They are fun to watch and sometimes it can be amazing to listen to them. But in the grand scheme of things, a marching band doesn't teach anything different. It has become more of an important part of FOOTBALL season, and less of an educational experience for the kids.

[Pedantic_Lady]

I've a question...If you don't mind my asking...How long have you been a teacher? Or, in other words...when did you graduate from college fully credentialed to teach?

I'm not a teacher, never have been, never will be. I was offered a job by the DISD in Dallas. That does not mean that I actually took the job. If you're curious about my education, I graduated from the University of Texas at Austin which was accredited last time I looked (I don't think the appropriate word is "credentialed"). I'm qualified to teach French. I'm not "credentialed" (as you put it) to teach anything else, though I have been paid to tutor in such varied subjects as algebra, geometry, chemistry, Spanish, and linguistics.

[Pedantic_Lady]

You don't say, but were the majority of teachers in your school liberals with left leaning ideologies? Were you taught that corporations are to blame for the degradation of the environment? That income tax is fair and sales tax comes down hardest on those least able to pay? In other words, were you taught to be a good socialist as part of your public school education? (I was educated in California where the answer to all my questions was yes)

Politics wasn't really discussed in my school except during election years. During the 1984 presidential election, I was 9 years old and in the fourth grade. In my social studies class, we had a mock vote. Mondale won, but not by much. The 1988 election passed unnoticed, and some debates broke out spontaneously during the 1990 Texas gubernatorial election and the 1992 presidential election; however, this was not really encouraged by our teachers, who wanted to keep partisan politics out of school.

As for ecology and taxation, I don't remember being told that corporations were to blame for the state of the environment or that income tax was fair or unfair. In our economics class (required by state law) we were taught macro- and microeconomics, the differences between capitalism and communism, how interest rates work, what the stock market is about, etc. You know...economics. Environmentalism wasn't discussed at school; of course there were some students who wanted to save the planet and my school had recycling bins, but that's as far as it went. It wasn't really part of the curriculum. I started kindergarten in 1980 and graduated from high school in 1993.

[Pedantic_Lady]

What were your qualifications for the 28K? What other options were available for you outside teaching and what were they paying? Wonder what a 2nd Lieutenant in the Army was making back then?

Qualifications:

BA in French, minors in Spanish, Portuguese, Biology. Post-graduate study in all three. Oh, and unlike most French teachers, I can actually speak French fluently with almost no accent.

Other options:

CIA translator, $27,000. Turned it down. Private sector translator, $30,000. Did it for three months. System analysis, private sector, $60,000. I've been doing that for 5.5 years, though I only made $60k in Texas. Salaries in the UK are considerably lower thanks to union collaboration.

Army salaries:

No idea...I have never had any interest in serving in the armed forces. It's not that I'm not patriotic. I'm just lazy, and I'll admit it. The thought of all that exercise makes me breathless. Plus, I have really bad asthma.

[KC_for_Freedom]

Thanks, I lived in Austin, Eanes school district '84-89
Good discussion.

[Pedantic_Lady]

Thanks, I lived in Austin, Eanes school district '84-89 Good discussion.

I lived in Austin for six years, not sure exactly where Eanes is, though. I lived in Jester at UT for 2 years, then in a sorority house, then in Riverside, then on Jollyville (near Duval and 183) for 2 years.

[ItsForTheChildren]

It takes a special person to light up a classroom and change someone's life forever.

Amen to that! I got a teaching degree in music "to fall back on." I really wanted to perform. I ended up doing neither. Performance didn't work out - I didn't have the discipline. I never used the teaching degree because I decided not to inflict myself on the kids. I learned during my student teaching that I really didn't have the passion. They really should have students who think they're interested in teaching do a semester of student teaching early on to make sure that's really what they want to do. How many teachers are out there just because they didn't realize until it was too late (e.g., financially impossible to change majors) that they didn't truly enjoy teaching?

Truly excellent teachers are worth their weight in gold. We can't possibly pay them enough. Look at how much depends on them!

[KC_for_Freedom]

Eanes is the school district of the Lost Creek area out on the beltway. (West lake area)

[Osage Orange]

You wrote:

"I'm not a teacher, never have been, never will be."

------------------------------------------------------

Oh, okay. I thought you had mentioned that you were...

My mistake, I guess.