Is Terri Schiavo Dead? Eat, drink, and vegetate

Reason ^ | 10-23-03 | Ronald Bailey

[ambrose]

October 23, 2003

Is Terri Schiavo Dead?

Eat, drink, and vegetate

Ronald Bailey

Terri Schiavo has been in a persistent vegetative state since 1990. Her husband wants to withdraw the nutrition and hydration her body has been receiving and allow her body to die. Her mother, father, and sister—and now Florida Governor Jeb Bush—want to continue supplying her body with food and water until... what? She wakes up? Dies of pneumonia?

What is a persistent vegetative state? According to the National Institute for Neurological Disorders and Stroke people in PVS "have lost their thinking abilities and awareness of their surroundings, but retain non-cognitive function and normal sleep patterns. Even though those in a persistent vegetative state lose their higher brain functions, other key functions such as breathing and circulation remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur, and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli. They may even occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh. Although individuals in a persistent vegetative state may appear somewhat normal, they do not speak and they are unable to respond to commands." People suffering from PVS can generally be distinguished from afflicted but cognitively intact patients who suffer from "locked-in syndrome" by the fact that "locked in" patients can track visual stimuli and use eye blinks for communication.

According to most neurological experts, Terri Schiavo is definitely PVS—her eyes do not really track visual stimuli and she cannot communicate using eye blinks. However, Terri Schiavo's parents have posted several short ambiguous video clips online which are meant to show that Ms. Schiavo responds to stimuli. But what they show seems to fit an AMA's report of how PVS patients can respond to environmental cues without being aware. Specifically, the report notes, "Despite an 'alert demeanor', observation and examination repeatedly fail to demonstrate coherent speech, comprehension of the words of examiners or attendants, or any capacity to initiate or make consistently purposeful movements. Movements are largely confined to reflex withdrawals or posturing in response to noxious or other external stimuli. Since neither visual nor auditory signals require cortical integrity to stimulate brief orienting reflexes, some vegetative patients may turn the head or dart the eyes toward a noise or moving objects. However, PVS patients neither fixate upon nor consistently follow moving objects with the eyes, nor do they show other than startle responses to loud stimuli. They blink when air movements stimulate the cornea but not in the presence of visual threats per se."

Ms. Schiavo has been in this state for 13 years. What are her chances of recovering at least some awareness? Minnesota neurologist Ronald Cranford told the Washington Post, "There has never been a documented case of someone recovering after having been in a persistent vegetative state for more than 3 months. However, the journal Brain Injury reported the case, of a 26-year-old woman who, after being diagnosed as suffering from a persistent vegetative state for six months, recovered consciousness and, though severely disabled, is largely cognitively intact. However, it is generally agreed that if a patient doesn't become responsive before six months, his or her prognosis is extremely poor. A report on PVS by the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council finds that "patients in a state of post-coma unresponsiveness may emerge from it to become responsive," that "the probability of emergence becomes progressively less over time," and that "there is general agreement that emergence is less likely in older people, and in the victims of hypoxic brain damage." Terri Schiavo is the way she is because oxygen was cut off to her brain for 14 minutes; in other words, she suffered severe hypoxic brain damage.

So is Terri Schiavo still alive? The odds are way against it. It's time that her long-suffering parents and the grandstanding politicians let her go in peace.

[GOP_Thug_Mom]

everyone posting on these threads needs to go to Terrisfight.org and read the affidavit of the nurse who took care of her back in '96-'97. VERY damning to Michael. Back then, Terri was communicating and saying a few words to her nurse. Michael demanded no rehad, thus the state she is in today. You can see pictures of her from that time, dressed up with makeup on, and see her today and how much she's deteriorated. He's totally responsible for the condition that she is in today.

[FITZ]

But Terri's resistance to infections argues for life, not against.

Yes --- that is also a factor --- a will to live. Someone who loses that can't be kept alive, she's had plenty of chances to die I think. I've talked with nurses who worked in an ICN and they say some bigger babies with less problems will die and you have these little 1 1/2 pounders fight one obstacle after another ---- and they can only attribute it to a will to live.

[FITZ]

His actions are what keep the issue alive..not her's.

That's very true --- he could seek a divorce --- that's not exactly the end of the world --- getting a divorce and he can consider her dead as far as he's concerned, he never has to bother with her again. He could have divorced her years ago, her family would be dealing with everything --- and none of us would have ever heard of Terri or Michael or anyone.

[Bronco_Buster_FweetHyagh]

If I were in her position, I would not want to be kept around like a piece of furniture. I especially would not want to be a huge drain of emotional and financial assets to my family.

[FITZ]

The point of this long post is this; a feeding tube is no more an artificial life support machine than a bladder catheter or an IV drip for administering medication.

Very true. A feeding tube is not a very major device, it's just a plastic tube helping the food bypass the lungs on the way to the stomach. It's not close to something like a respirator.

[PleaseNoMore]

I don't need to know her name Diddly. God knows exactly who she is and will have no problems identifying her as I keep her in my prayers. May she be given a miracle as she herself is a miracle. God bless and keep you and your family. :o)

[pttttt]

Check out this thread with facts about Michael Schiavo.

He stands to inherit her medical trust fund when she dies (over $1M) from a malpractice settlement.

He's shacked up with another woman who is now pregnant, probably by him.

Besides refusing access to the parents, he has refused to let a priest administer Catholic last rites to Terry.

While she's in bad shape, Terry Schiavo is not in a coma. She is not a vegetable. This is judicial murder, by a greedy husband trying to get his hands on money which was to have been for his wife's care.

[TASMANIANRED]

Unless, of course, the brain scans of Terri that are in the (sealed) court record that show she has no cerebral cortex left are correct.

Considering this piece of evidence would be the absolutely strongest piece of evidence that MS was acting in his wife's best intrest, wouldn't he have released it and had it flogged publicly. That it is sealed and he refuses to release it suggests this intrepretation of it is crap.

You always use your strongest evidence , you don't conceal it.

[TheAngryClam]

Of course, it doesn't matter what the public thinks, only the courts, and the courts have repeatedly ruled in his favor.

I wouldn't release it- it's none of any of the Terri Troopers' business to see it.

[Diddley]

[386]
Thank you for your thoughts, your prayers, and your understanding.
God bless you

[george wythe]

HIS doctors.

Not the family's doctors.

I was referring to these facts:

Oct. 17, 2001: 2nd District Court of Appeal rules that five doctors can examine Terri to determine whether she has any hope of recovery. Two doctors are picked by the Schindlers, two are picked by Michael Schiavo and one is picked by the court.

Oct. 12, 2002: Weeklong evidentiary hearing begins in the case. Three doctors, including the one appointed by the court, testify that Terri is in a persistent, vegetative state with no hope of recovery. The two doctors selected by the Schindlers say she can recover.

[PeyersPatches]

"When Terri dies, there will be an autopsy regardless of whether she is cremated afterward."

It was my understanding that Judge Greer had ordered NO autopsy as requested by his buddy, Michael. Did something change?

[PeyersPatches]

"The church recognizes suicide as sin, and the state recognizes it as a crime."

Figures, does it? The gov't would recognize suicide as a "crime"....the same gov't that recognizes starvation/dehydration as "humane" to humans and "inhumane" to dogs and cats....

And the dems want more government....ack

[Robert A Cook PE]

Yep - And look at the steady rulings against the family by Greer. Denying evidence, denying claims, denying visitation, denying life itself - based on the filtered evidence that he himself has set the filter criteria.

The family's doctors say she can recover.

[george wythe]

Dr. Webber's affidavit made it to court. But the court denied Dr. Webber the petition for examination. So how could he testify on her behalf if he wasn't allowed to examine her?

Facts:

Oct. 17, 2001: Using Dr. Webber's affidavit as a main reason, the 2nd District Court of Appeal rules that five doctors can examine Terri to determine whether she has any hope of recovery. Two doctors are picked by the Schindlers, two are picked by Michael Schiavo and one is picked by the court.

Oct. 12, 2002: Weeklong evidentiary hearing begins in the case. Three doctors, including the one appointed by the court, testify that Terri is in a persistent, vegetative state with no hope of recovery. The two doctors selected by the Schindlers say she can recover.

You quoted the remand by the Second Court of Appeals in 2001 to prove that Dr. Webber was not given a chance to testify in 2002.

If you have read the 2001 document carefully, you would have noticed that the court of appeals ordered that the Schindlers be allowed to present two doctors in a brand-new evidentiary hearing. The new evidentiary hearing was held in 2002.

You have to keep up with your time line. Quoting a newspaper from 2000 to prove that the Marlins are not World Champions in 2003 is useless.

Dr. Webber was given his opportunity to testify in 2002 and he did not show up. The Schindlers could not come with two neurologists in 2002, so they presented a radiologist and a neurologist. The Schindlers' neurologist has his license on probation and is a poster boy for Quack Watch.

Which brings about the questions: Why did Dr. Webber not testify? Did he change his mind about Terri?

[Shethink13]

iDoes her family keep her alive, only to lose her years later from multiple organ failure, amputation due to decubitus, difficulties in dehydration and nutrition, respiratory failure?...

In other words, do they act to create her demise or let her die naturally when her time comes. No brainer to me.

[george wythe]

The court appointed the best neurologist it could find as an independent witness.

The Schindlers could not come with two neurologists; they only came up with a neurologist whose license is on probation.

Schiavo offered two neurologists with excellent credentials.

Of course, everybody is in this conspiracy, except for a poster boy in Quack Watch.

[yesnettv]

Believe the opposite of what is on quackwatch - they are big time liars and big time litigators and they lose their litigation. If Quackwatch is against something, I check it out because it's probably pretty good. I have found some great things from what they denigrate.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

TCD testing is useful for evaluating certain patients who have strokes. However, the routine testing and monitoring Hammesfahr recommends would result in considerable unnecessary expense. Florida Medicare regards vasodilation therapy for stroke rehabilitation or other brain damage as "investigational" and therefore does not cover the cost of TCD studies (CPT codes 93886, 93888) associated with this treatment [1].

Nice find - a fact, and it explains what Hammesfahr is really about. I'm sure though, that there was some insidious conspiracy betweem Michael Schiavo, Judge Greer, the hospice, the malpracice inurance company, and the other doctors to suspend this doctor's license.