Is Terri Schiavo Dead? Eat, drink, and vegetate

Reason ^ | 10-23-03 | Ronald Bailey

[ambrose]

October 23, 2003

Is Terri Schiavo Dead?

Eat, drink, and vegetate

Ronald Bailey

Terri Schiavo has been in a persistent vegetative state since 1990. Her husband wants to withdraw the nutrition and hydration her body has been receiving and allow her body to die. Her mother, father, and sister—and now Florida Governor Jeb Bush—want to continue supplying her body with food and water until... what? She wakes up? Dies of pneumonia?

What is a persistent vegetative state? According to the National Institute for Neurological Disorders and Stroke people in PVS "have lost their thinking abilities and awareness of their surroundings, but retain non-cognitive function and normal sleep patterns. Even though those in a persistent vegetative state lose their higher brain functions, other key functions such as breathing and circulation remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur, and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli. They may even occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh. Although individuals in a persistent vegetative state may appear somewhat normal, they do not speak and they are unable to respond to commands." People suffering from PVS can generally be distinguished from afflicted but cognitively intact patients who suffer from "locked-in syndrome" by the fact that "locked in" patients can track visual stimuli and use eye blinks for communication.

According to most neurological experts, Terri Schiavo is definitely PVS—her eyes do not really track visual stimuli and she cannot communicate using eye blinks. However, Terri Schiavo's parents have posted several short ambiguous video clips online which are meant to show that Ms. Schiavo responds to stimuli. But what they show seems to fit an AMA's report of how PVS patients can respond to environmental cues without being aware. Specifically, the report notes, "Despite an 'alert demeanor', observation and examination repeatedly fail to demonstrate coherent speech, comprehension of the words of examiners or attendants, or any capacity to initiate or make consistently purposeful movements. Movements are largely confined to reflex withdrawals or posturing in response to noxious or other external stimuli. Since neither visual nor auditory signals require cortical integrity to stimulate brief orienting reflexes, some vegetative patients may turn the head or dart the eyes toward a noise or moving objects. However, PVS patients neither fixate upon nor consistently follow moving objects with the eyes, nor do they show other than startle responses to loud stimuli. They blink when air movements stimulate the cornea but not in the presence of visual threats per se."

Ms. Schiavo has been in this state for 13 years. What are her chances of recovering at least some awareness? Minnesota neurologist Ronald Cranford told the Washington Post, "There has never been a documented case of someone recovering after having been in a persistent vegetative state for more than 3 months. However, the journal Brain Injury reported the case, of a 26-year-old woman who, after being diagnosed as suffering from a persistent vegetative state for six months, recovered consciousness and, though severely disabled, is largely cognitively intact. However, it is generally agreed that if a patient doesn't become responsive before six months, his or her prognosis is extremely poor. A report on PVS by the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council finds that "patients in a state of post-coma unresponsiveness may emerge from it to become responsive," that "the probability of emergence becomes progressively less over time," and that "there is general agreement that emergence is less likely in older people, and in the victims of hypoxic brain damage." Terri Schiavo is the way she is because oxygen was cut off to her brain for 14 minutes; in other words, she suffered severe hypoxic brain damage.

So is Terri Schiavo still alive? The odds are way against it. It's time that her long-suffering parents and the grandstanding politicians let her go in peace.

[litany_of_lies]

see #315.

[Calpernia]

>>>Where does the idea of her body's not being autopsied come from?

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/10/19/21347.shtml

Sunday, Oct. 19, 2003 1:55 a.m. EDT
Terri to be Cremated on Husband's Orders

Terri Schiavo will be cremated immediately after her death on orders from her husband, Michael, her brother and sister revealed late Saturday, precluding any possibility that an autopsy could determine whether her brain damage was caused by a heart attack or physical abuse.

[Dog Gone]

NewMax is wrong. What a shocker!

[Calpernia]

My post was in answer to:

>>>Where does the idea of her body's not being autopsied come from?

[litany_of_lies]

Newsmax isn't the greatest, but the article refers to a Fox News Rita Cosby interview with Terri's siblings. It's possible the siblings are wrong, but Newsmax isn't wrong in reporting it.

[huck von finn]

Newsmax...I should have known.

Calpernia, I don't agree with most of the people here about this situation. But I'd like to assure you that this article is a load of hooey. There's just too much at stake on the fronts I mentioned--her body will be autopsied whenever she finishes dying, be it sooner or later.

[Calpernia]

You asked where we got it from, I supplied. I am now reading documents from the LIFE LEGAL DEFENSE FOUNDATION on Terri. Guess what? It is there too.

[Theodore R.]

No, we have never cremated in our family. With the order of George W. Greer, why couldn't Schiavo get his cremation in quick order. I think he has already paid for the cremation!!! "I am paying for this cremation," Schiavo will proclaim. Of course, it will be with Terri's "rehabilitation fund." Poor Terri will have to pay for her own cremation under the corrupt practices of the FL judiciary.

[shhrubbery!]

>>>"There has never been a documented case of someone recovering after having been in a persistent vegetative state for more than 3 months." This statement alone by Cranford is libel.

Cranford is being Clintonian. It depends on the meaning of the word, "recovering," you see.

IIRC Cranford was practically dumbfounded by the Patti White Bull case (the woman who "woke up" after 16 YEARS in a vegetative state) -- Cranford's quotes indicated he was trying to fudge his way out of admitting he'd been wrong.

[huck von finn]

Calpernia, while I can see Terri's family of origin fearing such a thing, I simply doubt that such a thing could possibly happen. They're overreacting--which is understandable.

By the way...were you the one (or was it someone else) who wondered why nobody put makeup on Terri in recent TV photos? Whoever it was seemed concerned.

Because somebody obviously did--I found a close-up photo that shows it.

[Theodore R.]

Unfortunately, the "nurses" who endorsed the dehydration alternative have never experimented with the plan. They should allow themselves to go without hydration for 6.5 days, as Terri was forced to do, and then be rehydrated to tell us about their "recovery" experience. Then we might listen to these "nurses." Otherwise, they are mere spokesmen for the euthanasia lobby.

[huck von finn]

No, we have never cremated in our family. With the order of George W. Greer, why couldn't Schiavo get his cremation in quick order. I think he has already paid for the cremation!!! "I am paying for this cremation," Schiavo will proclaim. Of course, it will be with Terri's "rehabilitation fund." Poor Terri will have to pay for her own cremation under the corrupt practices of the FL judiciary.

Well we have cremated the dead in our family for generations, and I can tell you that there are rules and regs for such things. And when you consider how important this whole case is--ethically, legally, and medically--there is no way that an autopsy will be avoided, even if someone did want to avoid it (and I'm not at all sure of that).

[Dog Gone]

NewsMax didn't report the statement as a quote of someone else's belief. Nor did it bother to do a simple search to confirm this "fact" before printing it.

It reported it as a fact.

I understand that many people here believe anything that NewsMax prints, but it's not a reliable source of news, in my opinion. This situation only confirms that.

[Theodore R.]

Has not George W. Greer said that there will be NO autopsy? That would clarify much about this case if we knew.

If Schiavo is not afraid of an autopsy, why does he insist on a cremation, which is contrary to her parents' wishes and THEIR church? Did Schiavo cremate his mother back in 1997?

[TaxRelief]

Maybe Hubby hopes she'll never talk. Someone might ask her how she got injuries consistent with strangulation.

[T'wit]

>> Speaking of souls...why do you want to lock Terri's up in a non-functioning body? Are you religious? Don't you believe that are spirit and souls live on?

Those are personal questions you have no right to ask in forum. An impersonal reply is that we do not murder people in order to release their soul, lest we lose our own.

[litany_of_lies]

NewsMax didn't report the statement as a quote of someone else's belief.

Yeah they did, they said it was "revealed" by the siblings.

But they didn't bother to confirm whether the siblings were right, whether or not summarly cremation is possible under FL law. That's why Newsmax is so weak. They're the same people that said a divorce filing would occur the day before Terri's latest feeding tube removal, when the strategy had been discarded weeks ago.

I'm inclined to think that MIkey can't pull off a summary cremation, unless what another poster said about Judge Greer allowing it is true, and if Judge Greer's "order" (if it exists) overrides FL law.

[Calpernia]

Huck, I have no idea if the hospice has arrangements to have patients cremated without post-mortem examinations.

You asked where that info came from. I provided.

As for make up, I have no idea what you are talking about.

[TaxRelief]

Mary Jo Melone is well known for her relationship with Felos. Come now, it never occured to you to check her out? Even *she* says it is only possible that Terri had eating disorders.

How about finding some medical records?

[epow]

It's the removal of a tube that's inserted through her stomach and pumps these things into her.

You don't know what you're talking about.

I cared for my bedridden elderly father for 9 months before he died OF NATURAL CAUSES, and I fed him 3 times a day through a gastric tube because his disease had stopped his throat muscles from operating properly and he was choking on his food. There is no pumping involved in tube feeding, the liquified food is simply poured through a funnel-like insert and into the small rubber or soft plastic tube, and it passes into the stomach just as it would had it gone through the esophagus. After the food goes through, a glass of water is poured through to flush the tube and provide fluid for the patient. Several other times each day I gave him water or juice through the tube along with medicine.

The small incision in the abdominal wall soon heals, it causes no pain or bleeding, and after a day or so the patient doesn't even notice it's there. The skin around the incision should be cleaned each day with a mild disinfectant such as rubbing alcohol to prevent infection, but usually no other care is needed. Of course it certainly isn't the ideal way to receive food and drink, but it's a thousand times better than not receiving food or drink at all. My father lived comfortably and with reasonably good physical health with a feeding tube for 9 months until the Alzeimer's disease finally shut down his internal organs and he quietly passed away naturally and peacefully without pain or suffering.

The point of this long post is this; a feeding tube is no more an artificial life support machine than a bladder catheter or an IV drip for administering medication. And to say that Mrs. Schiavo is on life support, as is so frequently alleged by advocates of starving her to death, is a gross mistatement of the facts. According to everything I have read, she is simply fed through a tube. No big deal, really.