Is Terri Schiavo Dead? Eat, drink, and vegetate

Reason ^ | 10-23-03 | Ronald Bailey

[ambrose]

October 23, 2003

Is Terri Schiavo Dead?

Eat, drink, and vegetate

Ronald Bailey

Terri Schiavo has been in a persistent vegetative state since 1990. Her husband wants to withdraw the nutrition and hydration her body has been receiving and allow her body to die. Her mother, father, and sister—and now Florida Governor Jeb Bush—want to continue supplying her body with food and water until... what? She wakes up? Dies of pneumonia?

What is a persistent vegetative state? According to the National Institute for Neurological Disorders and Stroke people in PVS "have lost their thinking abilities and awareness of their surroundings, but retain non-cognitive function and normal sleep patterns. Even though those in a persistent vegetative state lose their higher brain functions, other key functions such as breathing and circulation remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur, and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli. They may even occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh. Although individuals in a persistent vegetative state may appear somewhat normal, they do not speak and they are unable to respond to commands." People suffering from PVS can generally be distinguished from afflicted but cognitively intact patients who suffer from "locked-in syndrome" by the fact that "locked in" patients can track visual stimuli and use eye blinks for communication.

According to most neurological experts, Terri Schiavo is definitely PVS—her eyes do not really track visual stimuli and she cannot communicate using eye blinks. However, Terri Schiavo's parents have posted several short ambiguous video clips online which are meant to show that Ms. Schiavo responds to stimuli. But what they show seems to fit an AMA's report of how PVS patients can respond to environmental cues without being aware. Specifically, the report notes, "Despite an 'alert demeanor', observation and examination repeatedly fail to demonstrate coherent speech, comprehension of the words of examiners or attendants, or any capacity to initiate or make consistently purposeful movements. Movements are largely confined to reflex withdrawals or posturing in response to noxious or other external stimuli. Since neither visual nor auditory signals require cortical integrity to stimulate brief orienting reflexes, some vegetative patients may turn the head or dart the eyes toward a noise or moving objects. However, PVS patients neither fixate upon nor consistently follow moving objects with the eyes, nor do they show other than startle responses to loud stimuli. They blink when air movements stimulate the cornea but not in the presence of visual threats per se."

Ms. Schiavo has been in this state for 13 years. What are her chances of recovering at least some awareness? Minnesota neurologist Ronald Cranford told the Washington Post, "There has never been a documented case of someone recovering after having been in a persistent vegetative state for more than 3 months. However, the journal Brain Injury reported the case, of a 26-year-old woman who, after being diagnosed as suffering from a persistent vegetative state for six months, recovered consciousness and, though severely disabled, is largely cognitively intact. However, it is generally agreed that if a patient doesn't become responsive before six months, his or her prognosis is extremely poor. A report on PVS by the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council finds that "patients in a state of post-coma unresponsiveness may emerge from it to become responsive," that "the probability of emergence becomes progressively less over time," and that "there is general agreement that emergence is less likely in older people, and in the victims of hypoxic brain damage." Terri Schiavo is the way she is because oxygen was cut off to her brain for 14 minutes; in other words, she suffered severe hypoxic brain damage.

So is Terri Schiavo still alive? The odds are way against it. It's time that her long-suffering parents and the grandstanding politicians let her go in peace.

[TaxRelief]

What appeals court are you quoting from? Links please.

[george wythe]

See comment #138

[ClancyJ]

Why do you care about this issue? Does Terri living provide a danger to you? Or, is it a matter of proving you are right and all others wrong? Wow, if so, you will go to any lengths to prove your points correct won't you - even death (of someone else).

To those that wish others dead, maybe they should just concentrate on writing their own Living Will so that in the future they will be killed off.

In other words - leave powerless victims alone and quit playing God. If it was time for her to go - I feel sure God can take care of it - not you or Michael.

[sweetliberty]

"Why isn't this possibility examined by Terri's physicians? Why wasn't this entered in the courts?"

How long has it been since Terri has been allowed doctors who could or would actually do anything for her, including the kinds of tests that should be done? Also, medical records are private, so unless they are subpoenaed (can they do that) we would not necessarily be privy to that information unless it was known and made public by Terri's family.

I am also very curious why we have heard nothing about an investigation into the cause of her collapse. Could it be that it was never called into question? Or could it be that some nominal "investigation" was done and it was dismissed....just a matter of routine? Or maybe there are some LE types who are starting to get a little nervous because they didn't do their job and it might come back to haunt them. And the all important question: now that some of this information is getting out there, is there currently an investigation to address the many unanswered questions?

[TaxRelief]

No, no. I am asking YOU how you define his [High Tech Red Neck's] side of the argument. I do not believe there are only two sides in this case.

[Calpernia]

I am enjoying your carefully chosen snippets of the OPINION you posted.

This is the best statement I've seen in there yet:

"The guardianship court concluded that there was no evidence of a treatment in existence that offered such promise of increased cognitive function in Mrs. Schiavo's cerebral cortex that she herself would elect to undergo it at this time."

So I guess all those nice grants on cognitive disabilities and developments should be withheld from Florida. The guardianship court has declared there is no medical treatment or therapies on cognitive functions.

Can't have it both ways.

[Coral Snake]

Here, Kitty, Kitty, Kitty.

Sorry but smell ozone on this one. It is obviously being posted by a pro death troll to pull our chains.

[george wythe]

I am asking YOU how you define his [High Tech Red Neck's] side of the argument

He does a pretty good job himself, so I will refrain from such futility.

I do not believe there are only two sides in this case.

I don't either.

[ClancyJ]

I agree with your points. Just reassure your Mom about her future. Teeth - my mother is in a nursing home and has been for several years. She receives good care with caring people but one day for some reason I checked to see something in her mouth. I raised her lip and was absolutely shocked at the condition of her teeth. Man, I caused a ruckus.

Here I had fed her, taken care of all her medical/physical needs, taken her to doctors, worked with the home on her medications, problems and all of it, and I had never seen that her teeth were rotting. Neither had they although they should have been brushing them.

She had to have all pulled. The administrators apologized but never really took the situation as absolutely shameful as I felt it was.

You have to watch everything when people are in facilities like these. I so often worry about those who have no family to speak up for them or check on their care - they definitely will not last long.

[HiTech RedNeck]

The ones that opine there is some living cortex tissue left and the ones that don't, both have no surefire way to tell without opening up the cranium and looking, which would be out of the question.

She'd be an interesting scientific research subject if allowed to live. Just for science's sake, I hope Dr. Hammesfahr is allowed to try his therapy, or what he claims to be such.

[secretagent]

Do you wonder why the courts have not been impressed by the quality of the Schindler's witnesses?

Flakiness noted for the "Galaxy Group", but the Schindler's Dr. Hammesfahr supposedly has the best credentials of all the doctors on either side: Nobel Nominee, and the "first man in history to reverse the effects of a stroke".

I'd like his detailed comments on the "isolated living tissue" and it's implications for therapy.

[HiTech RedNeck]

We have examined the brain scans with the eyes of educated laypersons and considered the explanations provided by the doctors in the transcripts.

Any of these judges have bioscience backgrounds?

[george wythe]

Well, the Schindlers offered an affidavit by Dr. Webber to the appeals court. Based on that affidavid, the appeals court remanded the case for an evidentiary hearing to allow Dr. Webber to testify.

Dr. Webber did not show up. Did Dr. Webber have a change of heart?

The Schindlers provided a radiologist and a neurologist. The neurologist's credentials were called into question by the trial court.

What happened to Dr. Webber? Does anybody know?

[First_Salute]

These excerpts from Terri's parent's lawsuits, would be very difficult to be proven incorrect, as they restate the events that actually happened in court.

Recent lawsuit, August 30, 2003 ---

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
TAMPA DIVISION
Civil Action No.: 8:03-CV-1860-T-26-TGW

ROBERT SCHINDLER and MARY
SCHINDLER, as parents
and next friends of Theresa Marie
Schindler Schiavo, an
incompetent ward ...

[snip]

VERIFIED AMENDED COMPLAINT

[snip]

FACTS COMMON TO ALL COUNTS

[snip]

23. At the trial of the medical malpractice suit, defendant Schiavo swore that he
would use any recovery of pecuniary damages to take care of Terri for the remainder of
her life. He testified that he was going to become a nurse and devote his whole life to
taking care of her. He presented a detailed rehabilitation plan to the jury, a plan devised
by a rehabilitation specialist.

 

Previous lawsuit of September 22, 2002 :

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
TAMPA DIVISION
Civil Action No.: 8:03-CV-1860-T-26-TGW



THERESA MARIE SCHINDLER
SCHIAVO, Incapacitated, by her
Parents and Next Friends, ROBERT
and MARY SCHINDLER,

[snip]

20. In January, 2000, the Petition was tried to Hon. George W. Greer. No
attorney, no guardian ad litem, or any other independent voice represented
Terri at this trial. At this trial, Schiavo remembered, for the first time, that
Terri had told him sometime during the 1980s that she would not want to
survive on "anything artificial."

 

In the following, the expressed wish of the people of the State of Florida, as it is made law by our democratic-republican process; the 2003 Florida Statutes

Title XLIII
DOMESTIC RELATIONS Chapter 744
GUARDIANSHIP View Entire Chapter


CHAPTER 744


GUARDIANSHIP ........

......EXCERPTS:


744.1012 Legislative intent.--The Legislature finds that adjudicating a person totally incapacitated and in need of a guardian deprives such person of all her or his civil and legal rights and that such deprivation may be unnecessary. The Legislature further finds that it is desirable to make available the least restrictive form of guardianship to assist persons who are only partially incapable of caring for their needs. Recognizing that every individual has unique needs and differing abilities, the Legislature declares that it is the purpose of this act to promote the public welfare by establishing a system that permits incapacitated persons to participate as fully as possible in all decisions affecting them; that assists such persons in meeting the essential requirements for their physical health and safety, in protecting their rights, in managing their financial resources, and in developing or regaining their abilities to the maximum extent possible; and that accomplishes these objectives through providing, in each case, the form of assistance that least interferes with the legal capacity of a person to act in her or his own behalf. This act shall be liberally construed to accomplish this purpose.

(This excerpt is from the statutes and was researched by the efforts of Freeper, Ethan_Allen.)

The Constitutional laws in the United States are made by the people, through the democratic-republican process, not by judges. Judges do not make laws; they only have limited, specific authority to apply a situation to law(s) and laws to a situation, thereby establishing a precedent for when comes the next like juncture in a court of law.

The intent of the people of the State of Florida is clear:

Err on the side of the glass is half full ---> "[t]this act shall be liberally construed."

The in court testimony and behavior of Michael Schiavo simply demonstrates that he had no knowledge of Terri's personal wishes regarding her last willing, and upon his ignorance of that, he swore that he would devote his resources and his life to her life, doing so to the end of his life.

It's on the record --- his testimony.

Years later, in 2000, Michael Schiavo reversed himself and swore that he had known that she would not "want to live that way."

Now, Michael Schiavo either lied in first court proceeding, in order to swindle some people out of their money, by using the justice system to force such payments, or he lied in 2000 about her alleged wishes regarding her last willing.

There is plenty of information upon which to investigate Michael Schiavo for working against the best interests of his wife, Terri.

Affidavit of Carla Iyer, nurse who cared for Terri Schiavo from April 1995 to July 1996
FR page about Terri Schiavo. It includes affidavits by some of the nurses who cared for her, as well as excerpts from the parents' lawsuits on her behalf:

The pages start with nurse Carla Iyer's affidavit. Carla Iyer's license indicates that she is still practicing --- see Reply 53.

Michael Schiavo's sworn testimony that he would spend the rest of his life taking care of Terri --- see Reply 105, item 23 therein.

Nurse Carolyn Johnson's affidavit --- see Reply 78.

Nurse Heidi Law's affidavit --- see Reply 86.

The first time in court, that Michael Schiavo recollects that Terri allegedly had expressed some wish that she would not want to live, was in the year 2000, ten years after her initial medical emergency --- see Reply 124, item 20 therein.

A bone scan ordered by a doctor, and performed on March 5, 1991, just over a year after her initial medical emergency in February 1990, concluded that she suffered from a history of bone trauma --- see Reply 221.

[Republic]

This jerk of a so called science editor for ReasonOnline just got an email from me with an affidavit from a doctor in speech pathology defending Terri and an article from World Net Daily quoting an MD from the American College of Physicians and Surgeons defending Terri and railing against her lack of therapy and care.

If anyone is interested in writing this boob who could not bring himself to talk about the OTHER SIDE of this story, to even take an INCH of space dedicated to why Terri maybe should not be murdered....deserves nothing less.

Here is his email address and below that-the emails of the editor-in-chief, senior editors, assc editors and so on!

Rbailey@reason.com

And the rest of the boneheads can be found at:

cpf@reason.com, jsullum@reason.com, gillespie@reason.com, jwalker@reason.com, bdoherty@reason.com, sarar@reason.com

[HiTech RedNeck]

Reason and logic can never stand alone. It needs premises to work.

[ClancyJ]

In natural death, many turn away from food, pack food and will not swallow and just generally start shutting down.

But, here is the big BUT, this is in natural death after the body and God has determined it is time to go. Therefore, they have reached the place in life for them to exit and God has prepared that place for a peaceful dying. This is not true with the God-players.

They are deciding to shut the body down - it is not the natural progression and therefore subject to the same trauma that dehydration and starvation have for all other people experiencing it - no matter how they try and pacify their subjects about it.

[kaylar]

There are times when I've wondered...If Terri's Law is overturned, is it *just* possible that the judges will rule that making people die of dehydration and starvation is evil...But deliberately euthanizing the braindead/comatose/severely disabled by (eg) lethal injection is OK? If you accept the idea that people in the above named states can/should be 'put out of their misery because they wouldn't want to live like that', then why not admit what's going on and kill them as quickly and painlessly as one would kill an elderly pet, or the state a death row inmate? Am I paranoid-is this the proverbial slippery slope-or do others here see that as a possibility?

[ClancyJ]

.....Does her family keep her alive, only to lose her years later from multiple organ failure, amputation due to decubitus, difficulties in dehydration and nutrition, respiratory failure?... .

This point is mute because whenever any person is saved from one illness, they face the very same possibilities. We just do not control how we die no matter how so many want to.

[secretagent]

The ones that opine there is some living cortex tissue left and the ones that don't, both have no surefire way to tell without opening up the cranium and looking, which would be out of the question.

Although they do agree on most of the cortex or neocortex missing. Probably a resolution problem - haziness at the margins.

A good argument for an autopsy, but Mr. Schiavo has announced plans for cremation. Perhaps he fears examination of what the bone scan revealed.

She'd be an interesting scientific research subject if allowed to live. Just for science's sake, I hope Dr. Hammesfahr is allowed to try his therapy, or what he claims to be such.

I agree.