Is Terri Schiavo Dead? Eat, drink, and vegetate

Reason ^ | 10-23-03 | Ronald Bailey

[ambrose]

October 23, 2003

Is Terri Schiavo Dead?

Eat, drink, and vegetate

Ronald Bailey

Terri Schiavo has been in a persistent vegetative state since 1990. Her husband wants to withdraw the nutrition and hydration her body has been receiving and allow her body to die. Her mother, father, and sister—and now Florida Governor Jeb Bush—want to continue supplying her body with food and water until... what? She wakes up? Dies of pneumonia?

What is a persistent vegetative state? According to the National Institute for Neurological Disorders and Stroke people in PVS "have lost their thinking abilities and awareness of their surroundings, but retain non-cognitive function and normal sleep patterns. Even though those in a persistent vegetative state lose their higher brain functions, other key functions such as breathing and circulation remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur, and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli. They may even occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh. Although individuals in a persistent vegetative state may appear somewhat normal, they do not speak and they are unable to respond to commands." People suffering from PVS can generally be distinguished from afflicted but cognitively intact patients who suffer from "locked-in syndrome" by the fact that "locked in" patients can track visual stimuli and use eye blinks for communication.

According to most neurological experts, Terri Schiavo is definitely PVS—her eyes do not really track visual stimuli and she cannot communicate using eye blinks. However, Terri Schiavo's parents have posted several short ambiguous video clips online which are meant to show that Ms. Schiavo responds to stimuli. But what they show seems to fit an AMA's report of how PVS patients can respond to environmental cues without being aware. Specifically, the report notes, "Despite an 'alert demeanor', observation and examination repeatedly fail to demonstrate coherent speech, comprehension of the words of examiners or attendants, or any capacity to initiate or make consistently purposeful movements. Movements are largely confined to reflex withdrawals or posturing in response to noxious or other external stimuli. Since neither visual nor auditory signals require cortical integrity to stimulate brief orienting reflexes, some vegetative patients may turn the head or dart the eyes toward a noise or moving objects. However, PVS patients neither fixate upon nor consistently follow moving objects with the eyes, nor do they show other than startle responses to loud stimuli. They blink when air movements stimulate the cornea but not in the presence of visual threats per se."

Ms. Schiavo has been in this state for 13 years. What are her chances of recovering at least some awareness? Minnesota neurologist Ronald Cranford told the Washington Post, "There has never been a documented case of someone recovering after having been in a persistent vegetative state for more than 3 months. However, the journal Brain Injury reported the case, of a 26-year-old woman who, after being diagnosed as suffering from a persistent vegetative state for six months, recovered consciousness and, though severely disabled, is largely cognitively intact. However, it is generally agreed that if a patient doesn't become responsive before six months, his or her prognosis is extremely poor. A report on PVS by the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council finds that "patients in a state of post-coma unresponsiveness may emerge from it to become responsive," that "the probability of emergence becomes progressively less over time," and that "there is general agreement that emergence is less likely in older people, and in the victims of hypoxic brain damage." Terri Schiavo is the way she is because oxygen was cut off to her brain for 14 minutes; in other words, she suffered severe hypoxic brain damage.

So is Terri Schiavo still alive? The odds are way against it. It's time that her long-suffering parents and the grandstanding politicians let her go in peace.

[ambrose]

This is not a criminal case - "reasonable doubt" does not apply.

[secretagent]

Thanks gw.

Case No. 2D02-5394, 2nd District Court of Appeal, State of Florida. (cache links expire)

[TaxRelief]

"The court" you speak of so highly consists of a judge, George Greer, with extreme conflicts-of-interest. There was no jury, no panel, no compromise.

I believe strongly in living wills and an individual's right to choose their own death process. However, when we move into the gray area of disabled individuals with no living wills, it is critical that the judge should be impartial and have no affiliations whatsoever with the involved parties, including pro-euthanasia organizations.

This case is not representational of the pro-life v. pro-death debate. This situation does, however, provide a glimpse into the corrupt world of the death-mill hospices.

Remember the lesson we have learned from so many recent events in history: If you want to fathom the motivations behind unbending positions of corruption, just "follow the money".

[Recovering_Democrat]

So is Terri Schiavo still alive? The odds are way against it. It's time that her long-suffering parents and the grandstanding politicians let her go in peace.

So is Terri Schiavo a piece of property? The Constitution says no. It's time that editorial writers and her philandering husband realize her mom and dad love her, and allow them to care for her without trying to starve or dehydrate her.

P.S. Amazing how the video is summarily dismissed by these people: the same ones who would use video evidence to "prove" the internal motives of police officers using force to subdue a suspect.

Liberals sicken me. Thus, I am, very happily, a
Recovering_Democrat.

[jwalsh07]

Think about that Ambose. Why do criminals have more rights than this woman?

[jwalsh07]

This is not a criminal case - "reasonable doubt" does not apply.

Is it "clear and convincing" when two factions of the family are diametrically opposed?

[mware]

Death row inmates are also accorded a priest and Holy Communion if they want it. Something the judicial would not accord Terri.

[Calpernia]

I'm just curious why this hasn't been addressed more aggressively. Cause, it has been stated in articles:

"1990 heart attack caused by a potassium imbalance temporarily cut off oxygen to her brain"

But this condition is much more consistent with a person who has is coronary heart/artery disease. She would have had plaque, clots, and resulted in a stroke to do this type of damage to brain.

Whereas, the condition the ALLEGED experts keep debating is more consistant with head impact. It makes much more sense. 'Cause then blood would collect outside and inside the cortex area. Causing leakage of blood, damage to the vertebral, or carotid artery.

Why isn't this possibility examined by Terri's physicians? Why wasn't this entered in the courts?

[Calpernia]

>>>one that is more likely from severe trauma

I AGREE!

[george wythe]

I know there are obviously two sides

I know you know. I've seen you argue both sides of an issue before with incredible success, so I know you're an excellent debater ;-)

On the other hand, I think this issue has become too emotional for some posters, to the point that certain facts are ignored, such as the claim that only Schiavo has testified about Terry's wishes.

For what is worth, remember that the Schindlers have been associated with quacks before.

Remember this thread? Galaxy Wave Group?

The scientists at Galaxy Wave Group are not medical doctors. The operators of the ADAM technology do not diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any medical, psychological or emotional condition. These statements and the ADAM Technology have not been reviewed or approved by the FDA or any other government agencies or authorities

Do you wonder why the courts have not been impressed by the quality of the Schindler's witnesses?

[TaxRelief]

What are the two sides in this episode? What side had "High Tech Red Neck" chosen/

[george wythe]

What side had "High Tech Red Neck" chosen/

Click on his name. Then click on "In Forum"

[ambrose]

She is not a criminal, to my knowledge. The question is whether he wish to die will be honored or not. Truth be told, I'd suspect that most of the people waving the "bloody shirt" around here oppose the right to die, under all circumstances.

I don't see how one can support the right to life without also supporting the right to die. The two go hand in hand.

[secretagent]

Although the physicians are not in complete agreement concerning the extent of Mrs. Schiavo's brain damage, they all agree that the brain scans show extensive permanent damage to her brain. The only debate between the doctors is whether she has a small amount of isolated living tissue in her cerebral cortex or whether she has no living tissue in her cerebral cortex.

"Small amount of isolated living tissue" doesn't sound promising, but perhaps Hammesfahr has similar precedent cases he can cite where improvement occurred.

[hardhead]

If death by dehydration or starvation is 'peaceful', and Terri is at least a BREATHING organism, then why in the hell can't I starve my dog - or not give him water. He's getting old. He'll be 12 next month and damn it, he's outlived his usefulness. All he wants to do is kiss me and the wife and he just won't leave us alone when we go for a walk - he has to go with us. To top it all off, he insists on the best food and water. He's just getting too expensive. (definitely sarcasm)

[Calpernia]

The Hippocratic Oath
You do solemnly swear, each by whatever he or she holds most sacred

That you will be loyal to the Profession of Medicine and just and generous to its members

That you will lead your lives and practice your art in uprightness and honor

That into whatsoever house you shall enter, it shall be for the good of the sick to the utmost of your power, your holding yourselves far aloof from wrong, from corruption, from the tempting of others to vice

That you will exercise your art solely for the cure of your patients, and will give no drug, perform no operation, for a criminal purpose, even if solicited, far less suggest it

That whatsoever you shall see or hear of the lives of men or women which is not fitting to be spoken, you will keep inviolably secret

These things do you swear. Let each bow the head in sign of acquiescence

And now, if you will be true to this, your oath, may prosperity and good repute be ever yours; the opposite, if you shall prove yourselves forsworn.

[ClancyJ]

.....So is Terri Schiavo still alive?....

Hm....let me see, let me see. Is there a heartbeat? Yes, is she breathing on her own? Yes. Does she have emotions? Yes. Does she have bodily functions? Yes.

Guess she is alive. Not many dead people are seen doing the above.

[george wythe]

"The court" you speak of so highly consists of a judge, George Greer, with extreme conflicts-of-interest. There was no jury, no panel, no compromise.

The appeals court disagrees:

Despite our decision that the appropriate standard of review is abuse of discretion, this court has closely examined all of the evidence in this record. We have repeatedly examined the videotapes, not merely watching short segments but carefully observing the tapes in their entirety. We have examined the brain scans with the eyes of educated laypersons and considered the explanations provided by the doctors in the transcripts.

[TaxRelief]

So, you also agree that Reason Magazine is sliding down the 'slippery slope of personal politics' ahead of ...umm... reason?

[Bubba_Leroy]

Next will be the call to stop feeding children with Downs Syndrome. They are never going to get better. Why bother feeding them?