Doctors defend life for Schiavo

St. Petersburg Times ^ | October 25, 2003 | WILLIAM R. LEVESQUE

[NYer]

PINELLAS PARK - She smiles and cries. She recognizes her mom and dad. She is shy around strangers. She likes music and once smiled broadly when her brother told her he met Bruce Springsteen.

This is Terri Schiavo in the eyes of her family.

Mrs. Schiavo's family, doctors for the family and former caregivers held a news conference Friday to counter assertions by the husband, Michael Schiavo, that Terri is in a vegetative state and has no consciousness.

"It doesn't take a doctor to know that my sister reacts to me," said Mrs. Schiavo's brother, Bobby Schindler Jr.

"She listens to me," said Mrs. Schiavo's mother, Mary Schindler.

As the family pleaded its case, the American Civil Liberties Union announced it would join in the representation of Michael Schiavo to help overturn "Terri's Law," the measure passed by lawmakers Tuesday that allowed Gov. Jeb Bush to intervene in Mrs. Schiavo's case.

Bush ordered Mrs. Schiavo's feeding tube reinserted after she went six days without food and water.

"Once the governor thinks it is the proper role of the Legislature and he set aside the judgment of the courts, that requires us to get the courts to declare that is just unconstitutional," said Howard Simon, executive director of the ACLU of Florida.

Michael Schiavo has said that his wife, 39, would not want to be kept alive by artificial means.

Court-appointed doctors and physicians hired by Michael Schiavo's attorneys have testified that Mrs. Schiavo has no consciousness. They describe her groans, the opening and closing of her eyes and her smiles as involuntary reflexes.

That testimony led a Pinellas-Pasco circuit judge to order her feeding tube removed on Oct. 15 before lawmakers empowered Bush to intervene.

Felos said family members often project meaning from random movements and sounds.

"That's a common phenomenon," he said.

Felos said his doctors and others appointed by the court have watched the family interact with Mrs. Schiavo and have not seen evidence of cognition.

"If you look at the hours of video there are many instances where the mother says "Hi, it's mom' to Terri," Felos said. "There's no reaction. Absolutely nothing."

Mary Schindler doesn't believe it and sees a daughter's love for her family every day.

"My daughter is not in a persistent vegetative state," she said. "She is not a plastic plant like Mr. Felos says she is. She is extremely brain-damaged, and she's a human being."

Bobby Schindler said his sister likes John Denver music and smiles when it plays. Before her brain was severely damaged in 1990, Mrs. Schiavo knew her brother loved Bruce Springsteen music. She bought him a Springsteen album in 1978.

After he told her he met the rock musician a year ago, Schindler said, "There was a smile on her face to light up the room. ... She showed elation."

Three doctors who have examined Mrs. Schiavo for the family said they are convinced that she retains some level of consciousness.

Dr. William Hammesfahr, a Clearwater neurologist, said Mrs. Schiavo's eyes fixate on her family and she tries to follow simple commands, such as when doctors ask her to pull against their arm.

"This is a case about a judicial system making an error," Hammesfahr said.

But Felos said doctors used by the Schindlers, especially Hammesfahr, don't have the credentials of physicians on the other side.

In a 2002 order by Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge George Greer ruling that Mrs. Schiavo could not recover, Greer labeled Hammesfahr a "self-promoter."

The judge noted that Hammesfahr testified that he had treated patients worse off than Mrs. Schiavo yet "offered no names, no case studies, no videos and no test results to support his claim."

"There is no doubt the judge looked at the credibility of the doctors," Felos said.

Mrs. Schiavo's sister, Suzanne Carr, said she believes her eyes.

Carr said: "It's not my imagination."

[JulieRNR21]

"In a 2002 order by Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge George Greer ruling that Mrs. Schiavo could not recover,"

Neither can Steven Hawking. (severe muscular dystrophy). This man cannot care for himself at all, yet won a Nobel Prize

---

Exactly right & Hitler would agree with Greer's 'death sentence' for this innocent disabled woman:

Berlin, 1 Sept. 1939

Reich Leader Bouhler and Dr. Med. Brandt are charged with the responsibility of enlarging the competence of certain physicians, designated by name, so that patients who, on the basis of human judgment, are considered incurable, can be granted mercy death after a discerning diagnosis.

A. Hitler

[EGPWS]

As the family pleaded its case, the American Civil Liberties Union announced it would join in the representation of Michael Schiavo to help overturn "Terri's Law," the measure passed by lawmakers Tuesday that allowed Gov. Jeb Bush to intervene in Mrs. Schiavo's case.

A good statement to cinch the attitudes of those in doubt about the ACLU's directives and motivations.

Perhaps this will change the mind's of the "intellectually challanged" who may have financially supported them in the past.

[drlevy88]

I would like to have a living will that says "Anyone who unplugs me will be hunted like vermin, and will die in a manner that makes a persistent vegitative state a very attractive alternative."

All it would take is someone to conveniently lose your living will, and your "guardian" can choose to starve you to death. What states still don't do this? I'd be afraid to even vacation in Florida, the way things are turning out.

[cyn]

IMP Dr. Michael Baden, forensic pathogist, who finally got info from Terri's initial injuries -- in interview w/Greta Van Susteren ontherecord@foxnews.com -- pls pass this on. THANKS, FL engineer for transcription

Also -- a witness in Terri's room says that Terri was dressed inappropriately in warm clothes (TURTLENECK! ) w/blankets on her bed on Sat, Sun, and Mon. The world believes Terri is being kept comfortable, this is a 'peaceful death process'. The world needs to wake up -- and I hope this will help:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1007658/posts?page=110

Transcript of Greta's "On the Record" - Schiavo segment - Friday 10-24-03

Greta: And now for a medical condition sparking national controversy, Terri Schiavo, of Florida, has been been in a vegetative state since collapsing in 1990, from what doctors say was a potassium imbalance, that stopped her heart.

Greta: But according to the Orlando Sentinel, Terri's family says a doctor who at their request, reviews Schiavo's medical records, found she was admitted to the emergency room, with a "rigid neck".

Greta: Forensic Pathologist, Dr. Michael Baden joins us from New York.

Dr.Baden: Hi,

Greta: Welcome, Dr. Baden,

Dr.Baden: Hi,

Greta: Dr. Baden, a potassium imbalance... lets first talk about... if you had a potassium deficiency, can that cause the condition that Terri Schiavo had?

Dr.Baden: Umm, CAN, but UNLIKELY.

Dr.Baden: Potassium is very interesting , its probably the most lethal poison we have when it is injected rapidly, and thats why its the poison that kills people in capital punisment by lethal injection.

Dr.Baden: And it stops the heart from beating properly. Too much of it. But also, too little of it, hypo-potassium, can also cause the heart to stop beating properly, and lead to lack of blood flow to the brain, and death of brain cells by lack of oxygen.

Greta: All right, would it, would it...

Dr.Baden: But thats very unusual Greta, extremely unusual.

Greta: A normal healthy woman, ahh, I assume would have no reason for instance, to take potassium supplements unless perhaps she was on a dieuretic, or had some other medication that would cause a potassium depetion. Is that right?

Dr.Baden: That is correct.

Greta: All right. Um, is there any explanation in your mind, and I realize you were not her treating physician, but why would a woman her age have a potassium, umm, imbalance?

Dr.Baden: Extremely unlikely..., unless she had certain kinds of diseases, which she doesn't have. She was in her 20's... the reason she is in the state she is in is because there was a period of time, maybe 5 minutes or 8 minutes when not enough oxygen was going to her brain. That can happen when the heart stops for 5 or 8 minutes, but she had a healthy heart from what we can see.

Dr.Baden: The other thing though...

Greta: (interrupting)

Dr.Baden: I'm sorry, Greta?

Greta: No, go ahead...

Dr.Baden: Your staff has provided me with a bone scan that you guys obtained... ummm, from her initial admission, in 1991 to the hospital. And that bone scan describes her as having a head injury.. thats why she's there..., thats why she's getting a bone scan. And a head injury can cause, umm, can lead to the vegetative state that Schiavo is in now,

Dr.Baden: ...and it does show evidence that there are OTHER injuries, other bone fractures, that are in the healing stage. So thats...

Greta: Alright, alright, let me back up for a second... head injuries... Could she have had, umm, could she have passed out from a potassium imbalance, causing you know, falling, hitting her head, head injury. Is that what you're talking about... or are you suggesting some sort of pre-existing injury to her passing out...

Dr.Baden: Something... something totally different. That its extremely rare, for a 20-year old to have a cardiac arrest, umm, from low potassium, who has no other diseases.

Dr.Baden: So the other issue, is could it have been due to some other cause? which is raised by the family, HAS to be looked at.

Greta: Alright, in the 20 seconds we have left... other injuries... bone injuries... what does that suggest to you?

Dr.Baden: That... some kind of trauma. The trauma could be from an auto accident, the trauma could be from a fall, OR the trauma could be from some kind of a BEATING that she obtained from somebody, somewhere.

Dr.Baden: Umm, its something that SHOULD have been investigated in 1991, when these findings were, ahh... found...

Greta: ...were fresh.

Dr.Baden: yes, And maybe they were. Maybe they were investigated by the police at that time.

Greta: Alright, thats it, Michael Baden, thank you

Dr.Baden: Thank you.

110 posted on 10/24/2003 10:30 PM PDT by FL_engineer (Freedom_Loving_Engineer)

[cyn]

Terri needs an advocate. She needs to be out of that hellish hospice YESTERDAY.

There is a Judge Sexton in Tampa -- a guardianship judge. She receives gov't grants to visit wards of the state, those under guardianship -- that is her job, she has the $$, seems to have a good reputation. She understands the laws of the state designed to protect the disabled, and will uphold them.

How can we get her in on this? and ACLJ -- any more on them getting into this? PLS pass these questions on thanks. prayers and work continue for Terri.

[eno_]

That's why choosing your attorney and guardian is an important decision. Mrs. Schiavo's case illustrates that very well, but she could also have had some backup protection.

[drlevy88]

Yes, I know... and it is something I will look into ASAP... but it still rankles me that the default is becoming to starve. Papers can be lost or misplaced or destroyed in an accident; people can travel to regions far away from their homes (and lawyers). If I was in a state like Terri's, would I be as "unaware" as all these death doctors are claiming? Based on stories told by some people who have been in prolonged comas, I wouldn't want to count on it.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the heads up!

[Gritty]

Greta has got to be the worst interviewer in the world. She is constantly interupting and stepping all over her guests train of thought, injecting her own inanities instead.

Why FOX keeps her on is beyond me. I usually refuse to watch her.

[ladyjane]

It is difficult to see a loved one die in pain. I'm sorry you had to go through that. However I'm not sure what your experience has to do with Terri. She is not terminal. She is not in pain. The decision is not about witholding chemotherapy. It's about witholding food and water from a patient who requires care.

[MHGinTN]

Let the societal engineering judges overturn the law from the legislature--the socialist Florida judicial oligarchy courts have allowed the violation of Terri's federal and state constitutional rights to proceed anyway. Then, let the pondscum on the benches try to enforce their scoialist bilge spittle!

If there were any doubts in folks minds as to why the democrats obstruct and obfuscate over judge appointments, this should be a damn clear wakeup call that the democrat criminal enterprise wants to mutate this nation using the only means to engineer us they have left, the societal engineering courts! Time for democrats to ALL go. Then we hold the pubby's feet to the fire until they legislate as the people demand!

[pickyourpoison]

I want a living will stating to keep me plugged into everything. I'm afraid they'll find the cure the day after I'm unplugged.
I'm sure they would consider me a useless eater, since I'm retired and on the puter all day.

[MHGinTN]

You pontificated, All that is left is an empty automaton. It hardly seems a dignified way to live. Prove it, no, don't asseret that thus and such doctor has said this or that, prove that Terri is not still in her body, prove that being alive and loved is not dignified.

Neal Boortz has shown himself to be a bigger ass than I ever thought was possible. He's as bad as the damn democrats, as imperial in his thinking as Stalin. And he's flat wrong, as a human being.

[JulieRNR21]

I have emailed your query re: Judge Sexton to someone who sends me updates.

Will get back to you if I get a response.

[trustandobey]

LOL You are a VERY dangerous human being, helping to turn the country around, you will surely be on their list, as will we all! Sure am thankful Al Gore invented the internet.

[trustandobey]

How right you are. I can't help thinking if any of these people were ever put in similar circumstances wouldn't they be fighting for the best quality of life they could have? Christopher Reeve sure changed his mind. His first thought was I want to die, then it became what can I do to fight this? I am so ashamed he hasn't taken up Terri's cause, he could really help.

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

Your suggestions on what tests to do would be well accepted by anyone who wishes to see the truth. But unfortunately, it appears that this poor woman's husband does not want such discovery to take place. Three nurses who have cared for this woman have come forward with sworn testimony that Michael Schiavo refused to allow his wife to recieve even the most basic forms of therapy, such as allowing her to attempt to eat jello or placing a washcloth in her hand to prevent her hand from closing in on itself.

The fact that a lawyer and an uncaring husband say she is in a "vegatative state", does not make it so. If she has Alpha and Beta wave activity, can recognize words and faces, and can communicate through speech, then this is a disabled person, not a comatose person or a vegatative person.

Withholding food from her would be akin to withholding food from a mute quadrepalegic. After all, they can't move or speak to defend themselves, so why should they live. Right?

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

Ping!

[honeygrl]

There is a big difference in Terri and your dad. She's not terminal. Her life wouldn't have to be hell. Just because you wouldn't want to live like that, doesn't mean she doesn't appreciate life. She has shown that she has a very strong will to live. People don't just hang onto life when they are ready to die.

"In Terri Schiavo's case, her personality is gone. All that is left is an empty automaton. It hardly seems a dignified way to live. "

And that sounds like it came straight out of the scummy attourney's mouth.

[Dave S]

Neither can Steven Hawking. (severe muscular dystrophy). This man cannot care for himself at all, yet won a Nobel Prize.

On the other hand he is clearly conscious. With Terri, that is an open question at best.