Debate Erupts Anew: Did Thera's Explosion Doom Minoan Crete?

International Herald Tribune ^ | 10-23-2003 | William J. Broad

[Question_Assumptions]

I think the evidience is good that Thera was Atlantis and was later embellished with additional details. I've seen an interesting reconstruction that suggested a harbor and island sitting within the volcanic cone that was essentially blasted out by the volcano.

[livius]

Very interesting. Thanks for posting.

[blam]

"I understand the 1628 ash layer and grain are under the wall. What is your point in saying that?"

Oh, you're saying that the wall fell 178 years after the ash and the grain was charred?

It's been a while since I read the article about the grain but, if I remember correctly, they placed the collapsed wall and the charred grain at the same time and implied a 'sacked' city.

[Chinito]

Worldwide tree rings record this event at 1628BC. (+ -)

...at about 3pm

[blam]

"I think the evidience is good that Thera was Atlantis and was later embellished with additional details. I've seen an interesting reconstruction that suggested a harbor and island sitting within the volcanic cone that was essentially blasted out by the volcano."

I once thought this too. I've come to believe that Atlantis was far, far in the past, maybe, 9-12,000 years ago...at the beginning of the end of the Ice Age. If it was Akatori, we'd know a lot more about it, huh? Remember, the Atlantis story originated with an Egyptian high priest, not the Greeks.

[Ciexyz]

I toured Crete and the Greek islands by ferry in the 70's, it's a most beautiful area.

[Bob J]

A plume 158,000 ft. (30 miles) high could only have been seen in northernmost Egypt, and nowhere else along the eastern Mediterranian coast. The equation is: square root of the altitude in feet times 1.23 equals the distance to the horizon in nautical miles.

It wouldn't have stayed up there very long, either; 30 miles up is a pretty good vacuum. So I doubt it 'led' Moses and the Hebrews anywhere... or if it did, God must have been pissed off at them for not heading for Thera.

I read a theory a few years back that asserted the crossing of the Red Sea by the Hebrews was actually nearer the mouth of the Nile in an area called the "Reed Sea" which was more of a marsh and only a couple feet deep in some parts, but also much wider. It is based on a theory that the original Hebrew was misinterpreted and mistranslated (Of course, the similarities of "Red" and "Reed" are apparent in ENGLISH...what about Hebrew?).

This of course would all jibe with the Thera theory. If the plume did reach at least 30 miles (or higher, who knows?) it could have been seen by the Hebrews near the Nile Delta and might have appeared as a smokey staff by day and a torch by nite. If it continued to erupt and spew for several days or weeks, the light could have been reflected off the smoke particles forming the plume to a significant height.

One other issue that supports this theory is the Exodus story relating to how the Pharoahs men and chariots were caught in the rising sea. The popular locations of this at the Red Sea are fairly narrow and would have allowed them time to retreat safely to the shore, even if the were forced to abandon their chariots. If it happened near the "Reed Sea" at the Delta, it could have been tens of miles wide. As the Hebrews were exiting the east side the Pharoahs men could have been nearer the middle and would not have time to exit prior to being swamped.

One other note. The actual falling and rising of the Red Sea is a matter of contention. However, the Thera theory might explain this. As the initial tsunami hit the coast and then retreated, it would have drawn the water out of the Delta. There is an effect called "the Washbasin" where the water advances, retreats and advances again. With the "Reed Sea" so shallow , it would not have been unreasonable to see it drop to a level navigable on foot. As the washbasin effect takes place (or a secondary explosion at Thera that produced a second tsunami), the water would fill up again to a greater depth than normal, trapping the Pharoahs forces and drowning them.

Sorry if this is a known theory, I'm just an interested amatuer.

[aruanan]

Exodus to Arthur bump!

[what's up]

Yes, the charring obviously was before the collapse, so the fire could very well have taken place in 1628, and the collapse of the wall almost 200 years later.

An Exodus date of 1440 BC lines up with 1 Kings 6:1 which says that the temple was begun 480 years after the Exodus. Many anti-Biblical "scholars" try to disprove this by pointing to either a 17th century or 13th century date. However, 15th century seems to proven again and again...even in the article you posted. All the best.

[Alas Babylon!]

Right... And it was placed BEYOND the Pillars of Hercules, i.e., Gibraltar. That is no where near the Agean.

BTW, I've been to the Palace of Knossos on Crete. Beautiful place. If the waves had been 50 feet high then they would have almost made it to the front gate!.

[Utopia]

I was always taught Thera->direct correlation to the downfall of Crete.

Further, I was always taught that Thera was the origin of the Atlantis myth. Plato got everything right EXCEPT for the location of the island. Its an interesting argument, but it really pains me to think Plato could be wrong ...

[Bob J]

Right... And it was placed BEYOND the Pillars of Hercules, i.e., Gibraltar. That is no where near the Agean.

It has been documented that Plato (+- 400 BC) got the original Atlantis concept from a relative who referenced stories passed down from Solon, who heard it in Egypt (+- 600 BC) where he studied. It is possible the original Egyptian story involved an island civilization beyond the mouth of the Nile (since the Egyptians had never sailed to the Atlantic), and then Plato sexed it up to the "Pillars of Hercules" since he was writing to Greek audience.

Since it has been proven that there was significant contact between the Minoans and Egypt, the theory while unproven, is still quite interesting.

[Bob J]

There is little that Plato wrote that can be taken at face value. He consistently perverted common history in an effort to make allegorical points.

[Bob J]

Plato's writings were not an attempt to document history, rather the myths in the dialogues were used as metaphors and allegories.

[blam]

" It is possible the original Egyptian story involved an island civilization beyond the mouth of the Nile (since the Egyptians had never sailed to the Atlantic), and then Plato sexed it up to the "Pillars of Hercules" since he was writing to Greek audience."

I wonder where the Egyptians got the cocaine and nicotine then?

The Mystery Of The Cocaine Mummies

[blam]

Statue unearthed by archaeologists in an Olmec (1200BC) site in Mexico.

[Bob J]

Egyptian boats were flat and designed to sail the Nile and coastal areas on the Southern Mediterranean. Improved building and techniques might have come from other Med civilizations like the Minoans and Greeks, but I've never seen any evidence that Egyptian boats were built to survive the open Med much less the Atlantic.

From this article they suggest a tobacco type plant might have grown in Africa at the time of the Pharoahs (gone now), the same could be said for the coco plant.

Sure is a mystery.

[Bob J]

There is more evidence for Asian influence in early American culture, but, anthropologists theorize these early americans crossed the bering straight from Asia during the last ice age. Could their cultural history have been brought with them and influenced their early art?

While this artifact suggests an Asian model, I'm not sure there is any evidence it was actually created in Asia.

[blam]

You've apparently not read anything by Afro-centrist Clyde Winters

[blam]

"There is more evidence for Asian influence in early American culture, but, anthropologists theorize these early americans crossed the bering straight from Asia during the last ice age"

You ought to spend more time on FR, lol

European DNA Found In 7-8,000 Year Old Skeleton In Florida (Windover)

Bye, Bye Beringia (8,000 Year Old Site In Florida)