Posted on 10/23/2003 5:35:13 AM PDT by ForGod'sSake
It's not? What is it then? It's also using Mary as a mediator between yourself and Christ, and Hebrews explicitly states there is only one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ. Another passage says to "come boldly before the throne of grace and make your requests known to God" (known to whom - God, not Mary). Mary didn't die for anyone and she can't intercede to God for anyone. Only Christ can do that.
I meant to say here "Whenver a word appears in a sentence it was selected for one of its meanings."
The example is based on a faulty premise. You're saying you consider praying to Mary to be a sin, which is all well and good. However, since nobody actually prays to Mary, your point is meaningless.
it's communicating with the bodily dead which is a scriptural no no and has been since long before Christ. It's sin.
That's one opinion- about 1.2 billion people disagree with you.
It's no different than asking a saint to intercede on your behalf, which has been going on for about 1700 years. Nothing special here. Asking Mary to intercede on your behalf is not much different than asking other Christians to pray for you.
Mary didn't die for anyone and she can't intercede to God for anyone. Only Christ can do that.
Mary is beloved of God because she bore His one son. She was not just a vessel, to be used and then discarded. He chose her as the mother of His son. Isn't it therefore logical to conlude that she is important to God?
The problem here is that morality is a personal decision. Society should not attempt to coerce virtue- forced virtue is not virtue at all.
Give me the scriptures that say we should ask Mary for help.
Jesus ridiculed the traditions of men. Praying to Mary or to the dead goes directly against scripture as I already pointed out to you. Any tradition that is contrary to scripture is false.
Heb. 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Until you deal with these scriptures and somehow reconcile your beliefs with these (which you can't), you don't have a leg to stand on.
And as I pointed out to you, nobody "prays" to Mary. Asking for her interecession is not prayer, under any definition.
Why do you need scriptures to tell you that asking other Christians to pray for you is a good thing? Praying is not a solitary thing- it is something that makes us part of a greater Christian community. By praying with Mary and asking her to intercede on our behalf, you don't really do anything different than when a congregation prays on behalf of a sick person, for example.
This is a no spin zone. :) Besides, prayer or not, you are still using Mary as a mediator - read the scriptures again!
These scriptures you quoted are meaningless to this debate. They do not prevent any Christian from praying with other Christians or asking other Christians to pray for them.
This fear of Mary on the part of you proddies comes off as somewhat misogynistic, IMHO.
Mary can't hear you because Mary is not OMnisicient (that quality applies to God only) and that is what is required to hear the billions of prayers all at once.
And I say again, you are using a mediator and that goes against scripture! Deal with that. The bible says that Christ is the ONLY mediator. Get that thru your head. It also says to come boldly to the throne of God not boldly to Mary.
False. You are using a mediator other than Christ. Deal with it. Mary is not omniscient.
I know what you mean, but please know that means nothing to me. Some African can say the great god Zumbubu endowed me with the ability to walk backwards, and I will give their claims as much credence as yours: none.
It isn't an opinion. It's scripture. If it were an opinion, i'd offer it as such. It isn't. But, then this is what I'm talking about isn't it lol.
If that's your take on it, fine. If your particular reading of the Bible, which is probably endorsed by a few million people, calls this mediation, who am I to argue? God bless you, and I hope you find salvation. God will decide which one of us is correct. I'm happy to stick with an interpretation of scripture shared by the majority of the world's Christians for the last 1700 or so years.
As the Dalai Lama would say, it is that which results in the greatest amount of happiness.
If today we say it's ok only to sleep with someone before marriage, tomorrow they want to sleep with 12 girls or guys in public. The next day they're beeting down your door wanting to sleep with your wife.. We've seen this progression in society already.
That's the difference between an atheist who is a conservative (me) and one who is a liberal. Christians have this liberal to conservative spread too. And just like with you, we keep wishing the liberals would take a long walk off a short pier.
So you say. That's what I love about proddies- every one of them is a theologian with a special insight into scripture.
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