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To: Jim Cane
That's gibberish. U.S. laws are # U.S.C. #. Like, 28 U.S.C. Section 1403 or something. The reason I'm asking is that I have a hard time believing there's a law out there saying "U.S. citizens may not speak with aliens", or some such.

So forget the motives. IMO people who claim to know that UFOs are from some particular star system and claim to know their motives are full of crap. If the "whys" are too silly to entertain, focus on the "whats" instead.

They're not too silly to entertain. You cannot know their motives, but the least you expect from rational beings is consistency in their motives. I don't see that. Also, what are the motives of the government to keep this so quiet? That's the real problem I have. Crap, why doesn't Dubya come out and say "Clinton was lying to you -- there are aliens who have contacted us, and here is the evidence"? "Why" is an incredibly important question to ask. Until the government repeals all those laws against regular folk coming into contact with ETs and UFOs,

Like I said, I don't think those laws exist. I think that's someone putting a spin on a law that's isn't nearly as pointed as you're painting it.

I'm sure someone may believe they were prosecuted under a law that said that, but I'm guessing its more of a paraphrase. For example, there's probably a law that says its unlawful to remove debris from a crash site. Not a UFO crash site, but any crash site. And for obvious reasons. There may be hazardous cargo aboard, or you want to conduct an investigation into the cause of the crash so you can prevent it in the future. To save lives, you know. Or maybe its a military plane with some highly secretive components or cargo. All legitimate, non-UFO related reasons for that law.

Yet, you imply that such laws are part of a dark conspiracy to hide "the truth" from the American people. And until such laws are repealed, we can only assume that they really are trying to cover things up.

While I don't discount the possibility that intelligent life exists elsewhere, or even that such life may possibly have visited or observed our planet, the reports and observations to date are not consistent with the level of technology one would expect of such visitors. And the idea of a massive government conspiracy to conceal such contact is both irrational and unsupported.

132 posted on 10/21/2003 1:09:44 PM PDT by XJarhead
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To: XJarhead
You are simply wrong, on this score.

If and when I have the time, I'll try and track it down for you.

The laws are clearly regarding UFO's.

Actually, as I recall, there was a text book at the AIR FORCE ACADEMY WHICH HAD A CHAPTER ON UFO'S and how to report them etc. I think it was all even unclassified until it became better known.
138 posted on 10/21/2003 1:32:59 PM PDT by Quix
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To: XJarhead; All
Here's some interesting documentation on the AIR FORCE TEXT on UFO's:

Available at:

http://paul.rutgers.edu/~mcgrew/ufo/to-be-merged/usaf.chapter.info

THE MORE INTERESTING PARTS ARE THE LAST 1/4TH




In the past month, there has been some discussion of a chapter about UFO's from a US Air Force Academy Training manual. According to a file "usaf.textbook.chapter" in the Rutgers ftp site, the name of the book is

INTRODUCTORY SPACE SCIENCE - VOLUME II - DEPARTMENT OF PHYSICS - USAF
Edited by:
Major Donald G. Carpenter
Co-Editor:
Lt. Colonel Edward R. Therkelson
CHAPTER XIII
UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS

Robert K. Rouse (rouse@netcom.com) confirmed this in a posting to paranet on 1 Feb 1994. The title he had for the work was

AIR FORCE CADET MANUAL
PHYSICS 370
UNITED STATES AIR FORCE ACADEMY
INTRODUCTORY SPACE SCIENCE

One fly in ointment was that the Rutgers file contained such comments as

Subject: INFO:CHAPTER XIII - UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS
Keywords: USAF Chapter in Training Textbook, long since censored.

This is considered a *classic* among various UFO text files.

Read and make up your own mind :-)

and also
...
NOTE: Although obviously well written and comphrensive in its treatment of the UFO phenomenon, it is the opinion of ParaNet Pi that this reputed U.S.A.F. Chapter is in fact a cleverly planted hoax, and did not appear in any Air Force Training Manual as claimed. However, we do not have any hard proof to support this assessment of its authenticity.

-Tom Mickus 04/24/88

In addition, you have John Lear making comments like this (from a Feb 14, 1988 8:00 PM EST three hour conference on CompuServe with John Lear and several others; I think the file is in the Rutgers ftp site):

(DB) John, have you actually seen the chapter in the USAF acad. text book that dealt with alien beings, etc. (now removed from the text).

Do you know how long the book was used in that form?

(John Lear) I have not seen the book, but Phil Klass admitted to me
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
that it was there. No I do not know how long it was there but since it talked about Betty and Barney Hill it had to be since 1971 or 72.

These, plus an inability to turn up the book _Introductory Space Science_in any library catalog made it seem as though the chapter belonged to same category of such disputed works as Blue Book Special Report #13.

However, a search on the Library of Congress system (LOCIS) on the name Donald G. Carpenter revealed the following entry.

LC Call Number: QB505 .E55
Title: Environmental Space Sciences.
Authors: Donald G. Carpenter[and others]
Publication Info: Northbrook, Ill., Whitehall Co. [c1972]
Phys. Description: 719 p. illus. 26 cm.

As luck would have it, our university library had this very book; I have it by my side right now. It in fact DOES contain a chapter on UFO's. The chapter in the book has the same organization as the chapter in the
usaf.textbook.chapter file, with extra commentary at the end critiquing the Condon report. Some other differences that popped out: in the book, Carpenter declares the Book of Dzyan story to be a hoax and also suggests
that economists should analyze the flight patterns of UFO's. The tone of the chapter in the book, however, is the same as as the tone of the chapter in the file: he advocates the the spirit of scientific inquiry, with a strong skepticism towards UFO buffs and UFO detractors alike.

My guess is that the book _Introductory Space Science_ may have been a preliminary version of the book _Environmental Space Sciences_. Perhaps it was only as set of informally published class notes at the USAF Academy, which
would explain why _ISS_ is apparently so hard to track down. Some reasons to believe that _ESS_ followed _ISS_ are

1. Carpenter is listed as a major in _ISS_ (i.e., the file); in _ESS_ (the book) he is a Lt. Colonel (the next higher rank)

2. _ISS_ contains bibliographic references up to 1968;
_ESS_ has them up to 1971.

3. Carpenter is listed as a FORMER associate professor of physics at the USAF Academy in _ESS_.

4. The partial table of contents for _ISS_ (provided by Rouse in his posting)indicates a smaller page count than for _ESS_ (although the chapter structure remains the same).

5. The _ESS_ chapter contains material beyond the _ISS_ chapter.

In summary: the chapter exists and is freely available.

As a final note, here are a couple of blurbs from the book from _ESS_ that I found amusing. Although Carpenter made a point of defending the USAF's policy towards UFO's, we have the following disclaimer on the copyright page:

This book is not a United States Government publication. The views expressed within this book are those of the Editor and Authors alone, and do not necessarily agree or disagree with the Official views of the United States Government.

On the back of the book, the sum total description of the contents of the book is as follows. (I was impressed that they saw fit to mention UFO's to the exclusion
of any of the other 32 chapters.)

Environmental Space Sciences
We are now in the space age and must understand how to move and survive in it.

This book provides some of the essential information needed on space environment and orients us to the whole new and fascinating field of Space Science, including the problem of the UFO. (See Chapter XXXIII.)

The authors are highly qualified and professional scientists who have devoted their careers to this fantastic frontier. They have participated in virtually every phase of Space Science from the beginning.

Brian Pinette
150 posted on 10/21/2003 4:52:56 PM PDT by Quix (DEFEAT the lying, deceptive, satanic, commie, leftist, globalist oligarchy 1 associate at a time)
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