UFO still puzzles 30 years later (Coyne Incident)

Mansfield Journal ^ | 10/18/2003 | Russ Kent

[SteveH]

MANSFIELD -- Thirty years ago tonight, strange things were happening in the skies over north central Ohio.

A close encounter in Mansfield, that has since become known as "The Coyne Incident," is still raising eyebrows among believers and UFO investigators.

[Quix]

BTW, COULD SOME of you physics hot-shots answer a question I've had for a lot of years . . .

Considering the electrons etc. making up atoms . . . are there enough variations involved--in those and other SUB-atomic particles . . . such as, perhaps, spin, speed, distance from nucleas? . . . whatever

that very small particle stuff could be used as messagers and/or messages?

I was thinking along these lines wondering if other dimensionality might interface with our dimension at such levels in an information exchange fashion. I was just curiously musing --HOW-- might God KNOW OUR THOUGHTS AFAR OFF. Probably beyond our comprehending but anyway.

[Quix]

The English department here in the Jr College's Humanities dept is, of course, led by a number of dyed-in-the-wool English 'scholars' --I use the term loosely because I'm not impressed with their attitudes nor scholarship.

The task in English 111 is for the student to produce a final portfolio of 1 'academic' paper using 3 sources of 3-5 pages in length which also exhibits the student's own voice, perspective; 1 other unit paper which has been refined through several iterations and one IN-CLASS SUMMARY/RESPONSE to a newspaper editorial.

There are a number of professionals teaching the course who have a journalism background.

It would often seem that the English the two camps are teaching to supposedly standardized criteria--it would often seem that they are teaching different languages.

In my observation, most dyed-in-the-wool "English Professors" are entrenched in a very literary mentality. I love English, too. But I don't think I sit around fondling it, massaging it, wallowing in it in quite the same way, with quite the same narrow obsessiveness as some of them do. They remind me of the French trying, by law, to prevent other terms from other languages corrupting French. They seem to be chronically 30-40 years behind the actual English usage of the day.

For example, I tend to be more in sympathy with the journalism folks. We tend to believe in shorter paragraphs more or less strictly limited to one main idea, one main point. The more archiac "ENGLISH PROFESSORS" tend to be uncomfortable unless the paragraphs are at least half a page long and are probably happiest when paragraphs are a page and a half long (slight hyperbole, there).

Anyway--given that you are an "Old Professor," I was curious about your perspectives on such issues.

Cheers.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your questions!

There are a number of theorists who attribute consciousness to quantum events which would involve "local" or "real" particles and state collapse. Some I presume would also include the virtual particles which come into/out of existence and non-locality in attributing consciousness to quantum mechanics.

Quantum field theory is another way of looking at quantum mechanics, i.e. instead of particles, fields. A field is an entity which exists at all points in space. There are theorists who attribute consciousness to such an as-yet unmeasured field.

Some theorists believe that the "mind is what the brain does" and thus see consciousness, soul etc. as an illusion, a mere epiphenomenon of physical activity in the brain.

Still other theorists see our four dimensional space/time as a manifestation of dynamics in a higher spatial/temporal dimensions. In this view, which I hold, consciousness (soul, spirit, etc.) is seen as non-temporal, non-spatial and non-corporeal.

[Quix]

I gather that the latter would also fit the notion of

'all that we see and know'

being 'merely' a vast, incalculable, incomprehensibly complex hologram?

A REAL MATRIX, VERY LOADED?

An old family friend used to contend that once we'd lived our lives, God could put all the data about us and our choices in His Heavenly computer and wouldn't need 'us' any longer--that such would be our 'resurrection."

I disagree. I don't think God does things that way. I think God tends to prefer the raw and real. . . . whatever that means.

But it was an interesting idea. And it seems to me, the idea of the vast cosmos being a vastly complex holographic computer . . . is merely an extrapolation of such ideas.

[Quix]

Much appreciated your thoughtful and perceptive response.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your reply!

I haven't watched Matrix Reloaded so I can't use it as a reference point, nor has any of the papers I've read called the four dimensions in which we think we live, a hologram.

Without considering consciousness (soul, spirit, etc.) - it is more like a geometric framework or structure. Here are some interesting links to explore the idea:

Parallel Universes (Level IV especially)

Space-Time-Matter Consortium

[Quix]

Thanks much, for the links.

Understand . . . I think!

[Quix]

HOWDY, The following seems to be a worthy read after all:

BTW, Have mostly finished Greer's book and started

UFOs and The National Security State: Chronology of a Cover-up 1941-1973

by
Richard M Dolan

Author bio:
Richard M Dolan is a gifted historian whose study of a U.S. Cold War strategy led him to the broader context of increased security measures and secrecy since World War II. One aspect of such government policies that has continued to hold the public's imagination for more than half a century is the question of unidentified flying objects.

He studied at Alfred University and Oxford University before completing his graduate work in history at the University of Rochester, where he was a finalist for a Rhodes scholarship. Prior to his interest in UFOs Dolan studied U.S. Cold War strategy, Soviet history and culture and international diplomacy. He lives in Rochester, NY, where he is at work on volume two of his study.

One Reviewer:
"This book represents a milestone in the field of UFO research. With uncommon discipline, precision and balance, Dolan integrates 30 years of eyewitness reports, both public and classified military-intelligence studies thereof, and surrounding relevant developments in world affairs and science into a single coherent chronology. The result is breathtaking, as it peels away the cover of official secrecy surrounding the most important events of the 20th century. UFOs and the National Security State is one of the most important books to be published in the past 100 years." --Joe Firmage, chairman Motion Sciences Organization

When I scanned it after receiving it, I was disappointed and not sure I'd even read it. It looked very dry and academic and mostly a rehash of plenty I'd alread read tons on.

QUAKE NEWS . . . INTERESTING location and timing . . .

Anyway--I've gotten into parts of the book and am impressed with his scholarship and access. Even you, Poohbah, MIGHT find it worth your time.

I will likely post some excerpts there, on this thread within 48 hours.

[Hegemony Cricket]

bflr

[Nataku X]

Sorry had to step out of town for a few days!

You raise extremely interesting questions. Certainly the power of hypnotic suggestion might be possible--or perhaps incite the "mob mentality" artifically by spraying phermones or other drugs over an area. Who knows... I enjoyed reading your post and will have to look up how the brain can be affected by frequencies. In any case...

I don't wear tin-foil hats and don't anticipate doing so. I figure Christ's Blood and Holy Spirit are sufficient regardless of the technology.

Amen. God holds us responsible for our concious actions, and for our concious choices leading up to unconcious actions. A great Christian writer (forgot his name) wrote a book--he said that the fear that one can "accidentially" take the Mark of Beast is completely unfounded--the lines between Christians and the AntiChrist will be very clearly drawn, and everyone taking the mark will be making an extremely concious choice. That is what I believe.

[Nataku X]

In a later section of Greer's book, he affirms that such is true. Sad. Very sad. Such contributed to the death of my own sister in a major way.

Would like to communicate by FRmail if you don't mind. (Besides, I've got a personal story to tell also)

[Nataku X]

A purely atheistic way of looking at this would be that the brain can be viewed in "states"... and the most important factor in this state would be the strength of neural connections between individual neurons. The amount of computational memory it would take to store a single state--in my current completely neural-based project involving visual motion learning, 64 bits is necessary to represent each connection. On my computer with 2 GB of memory I can only use a 92x92 neural network with a rather small receptive field (e.g., the number of adajenct neurons that a single neurons can connect to). I can only work with a 92x92 grid of neurons compared to billions and billions of neurons in the brain.

If you wanted to influence memory directly you'd have to translate all these neural networks into a "language" such that you can glean individual memories from the brain. Then you'd have to manually fine-tune the connection strengths so that you can alter the state to delete or add memories. The most that scientists can glean is whether an individual has been exposured to certain types of stimuli, rather than certain memory by (1) measuring the rate of learning (faster learning means newer stimuli--I don't know if this can be done biologically, but this can be done computationally) and (2) measuring and comparing reactions to different stimuli (already can be done, obviously).

So, in summary--in order to alter memory--it'd be like changing the contents of your HD to exactly what you want with a magnet, working outside of the computer rather than directly operating on the HD, without knowing what's already in the HDs--only much more complex.

[Quix]

BY ALL MEANS. Everyone should feel free to FREEPMAIL me more or less at any time.

I'm usually happy to give a more private email to those I know hereon.

Humbled and honored by your request.

[CMOTB]

Contrails are one thing. Its those CHEMtrail people that I keep hearing talking on the radio that I wonder about. I see contrails over head in centeral Colorado all the time. Heading east and west.

[PoorMuttly]

Re Post #24 -

It isn't nice to post shaggy eel's driver's license picture. They didn't let him comb his...whatever it is.

And another thing...I thought we had "closure" on this UFO thing. I was young, I was cleaning it, and it just sort-of "went off."

[Quix]

THANKS FOR YOUR SCHOLARLY REPLY.

Somehow, I feel that your explanation, as logical and sound as it is--I feel that it is somehow like--what--like ships passing in the night in terms of what is going on.

That somehow, given the brain's complexities and/or the complexities of reality in ALL it's dimensions . . . your explanation just doesn't apply to the phenomena going on. I have no explanation for my feeling--it's just a feeling.

--------------------------

[My bold emphasis as well as any color emphasis]

--------------------------

Here's an example of what I've been referring to--this one from: UFOs and the National Security State: Chronology of a Cover-up 1941-1973 by historian Richard M Dolan (p328):

Even if McDonald had been targeted by some dark force in the U.S. intelligence community, one may ask, how could his "suicide" have been arranged, and why! After all, why fear McDonald when UFOs had become irrelevant? To answer this question, we need to remember that, while UFOs were a nonissue within mainstream culture, things were different in the classified world. There, it was understood that UFOs would not go away simply because of Edward U. Condon. Looking back, we can see the early 1970s as a lull, not the end, of the UFO problem. Those on top of the problem at the time probably understood this. Therefore, James McDonald, only fifty-one years old, could well have been perceived as a nuisance, and even a threat.

The how part was really no matter at all. By the early 1970s, there were already means available to alter the moods of unsuspecting persons. A pocket-sized transmitter generating electromagnetic (EM) energy at less than 100 milliwatts could do the job. This is no pie-in-the-sky theory. In 1972, Dr. Gordon J. F. McDonald testified before the House Subcommittee on Oceans and International Environment on the issue of electromagnetic weapons used for mind control and mental disruption. He stated:

[T]he basic notion was to create, between the electrically charged ionosphere in the higher part of the atmosphere and conducting layers of the surface of the Earth, this neutral cavity, to create waves, electrical waves that would be tuned to the brain waves. . .. About ten cycles per second.. . . You can produce changes in behavioral patterns or in responses.

The following year, Dr. Joseph C. Sharp, at Walter Reed Hospital, while in a soundproof room, was able to hear spoken words broadcast by "pulsed microwave audiogram." These words were broadcast to him without any implanted electronic translation device. Rather, they reached him by direct transmission to the brain.24

Thus, we ask, could McDonald have been the victim of a program using technology such as described above? The answer is yes. Whether or not he was may never be answered. Some will claim this account of McDonald's death is little more than conspiracy mongering. Not so. It is no better willfully to ignore such unpleasant realities and pretend that McDonald died, unprovoked, of his own hand—a practice that is the rule among UFO researchers today. No one is in a position to state whether McDonald's suicide was real or not. Both scenarios are possible. It is an unsatisfying and all-too-common position, unfortunately, within the UFO field.

Footnote 24: Lorenzen, Jim and Lorenzen Coral 1968. UFOs over the Americas . New York: Signet Books p 196

[Qx: And this VERY APT (imho) paragraph on page 388 of Dolan's book]:

"I have tried to show that the cover-up of UFO information is nothing unique. A state capable of conducting terminal mind-control experiments, biological spraying of American cities, illegal mail and cable interceptions, nationwide domestic surveillance by its military, human plutonium and syphilis injections, sundry coups and assassinations, ongoing media manipulation and flat-out public lying on a continual basis, would surely be capable of lying about UFOs, too. Indeed, it was the very institutions involved in such unsavory and subterranean activities that were most interested in maintaining UFO secrecy."

This is not the only time I've come across this sort of thing. I now consider it a fact just as the plutonium and syphilis tragedies were/are facts.

The mechanisms, the HOW, remains to be demonstrated with any great specificity, to my satisfaction. But I've read too much credible material to disbelieve it.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for the interesting insight to your work!

[shaggy eel]

,,, I've looked at post #24 and that's how I looked 30 years ago! Now, my knowledge of Ohio is minimal. I know I should call Akron first or last for a good deal on tyres or spuds; I know my mother-in-law was raised there for almost ten years but that's it. Tell me this... is Mansfield near Zanesville? I heard (probably around 30 years ago) of UFO sightings in Zanesville and always remembered the name. Is this the same incident?

[shaggy eel]

,,, December 30, 1978 in a far away land...

[Las Vegas Dave]

When UFO’s arrive

The U.S. and other world governments already have detailed secret plans for first contact.

Within the scientific community, the question is no longer whether extraterrestrial life exists, but if ET is smart enough to do long division. Scientists are of two minds regarding the existence of ET’s Skeptics acknowledge simple life forms might be found on other planets, but insists that intelligent life is unique to earth. The opposing camp sees the prospect for discovering alien life in more mathematical terms. The Drake equation.
< snip >

Five pages of text and photos follow, one photo of fully suited lab worker reads; "Nonhuman but alive, ET would likely be legally classified as an animal and quarantined in a Biosafe Level 4 facility on Plum Island."
Another photo of a man in a bio-hazard suit reads; "Operating on the assumption that a craft with no exhaust stream must be nuclear powered, the Nuclear Emergency Search Team (NEST) would be mobilized to secure an alien aircraft."
< snip >



(IMHO) The article in it’s entirety is ho-hum reading, but the magazine POPULAR MECHANICS is a main-stream (credible) magazine with many hundreds of thousands of readers, that is significant!