UFO still puzzles 30 years later (Coyne Incident)

Mansfield Journal ^ | 10/18/2003 | Russ Kent

[SteveH]

MANSFIELD -- Thirty years ago tonight, strange things were happening in the skies over north central Ohio.

A close encounter in Mansfield, that has since become known as "The Coyne Incident," is still raising eyebrows among believers and UFO investigators.

[Truth Addict]

re: the Red Bluff incident;

I had not seen this report before either, and taken at face value, it would seem to be a credible report. We have two trained observers describing objects that had definite shapes, not just points of light, that moved quickly, and alternately, hovered motionless for over two hours.

For the Air Force to write this off as stellar or planetary observations is insulting to the witnesses, especially given the lack of temperature inversions that were being alleged, as well as two of the alleged stars being below the horizon at the time of the sighting.

There have been many sightings that can reasonably be ascribed to Venus, Mars, swamp gas, ball lightning, weather ballons, etc. but this is not one of them.

[Quix]

MUCH AGREE.

THANKS.

[Quix]

At least for the time being.

[Quix]

For a VERY off the wall, beyond strange, absurd etc. read from Pravada about a UFO and the first Iraq war etc. . .

you can try:

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2003/01/31/42821.html

But . . . I'd suggest reading more for humor . . . or to shake one's head at the degree of off-the-wallness that can occur in this topic area.

But then . . . at certain levels of high strangeness . . . how does one tell between 100% ridiculous and 110% ridiculous?

[Jim Cane]

Thanks for the Kecksburg update. I fell asleep watching the gawdawful SciFi program (Bryant Goofbal just sucks and
they could have cut the program down to about 15 minutes and still effectively covered all the material presented), but the Kosmos 97 exmplaination makes a lot of sense to me.

[Quix]

Understand about Brian Goofball.

The Soyuz 96 thing was thoroughly trashed by both Soviet and USA experts as being a totally impossible explanation.

I figure most TV is at best lots of chaff. I usually ignore lots of less than ideal aspects of most programs. Guess I sort of consider the gumball, ignore and go on gleaning.

[potlatch]

LOL, my son came into the room while I was reading the Pravda article!! Needless to say, I am being laughed at, considering the title of it!!

[Quix]

I had an interesting response to your post about your son laughing at you reading the very strange Pravada post.

. . . I think it was something I subliminally knew before . . .

I don't mind the laughing that much.

IT'S AFTER THE LAUGHING STOPS THAT OUR MORE SERIOUS TROUBLES WILL BEGIN.

Hope that's not true. I believe it is true.

[potlatch]

Hope that's not true. I believe it is true.

Not much I can say to that, Quix!

[Frank_Discussion]

Rods! Kewl!

[Frank_Discussion]

I don't know if this has been posted, but:

http://www.beyondweird.com/etlaw.html

Since the law was repealed, I say we get to networking!

In all seriousness, XJarhead, one thing you may not have considered is the anthropological effects of one civilization contacting another. On this planet we've numerous instances where culture clash over simple gestures can have strange consequences. I once saw a pamphlet on U.S. military relations to the Vietnamese, where it was even highly stressed that you keep you feet planted during conversation, lest you show the sole of your foot and offend the person you were talking to!

The hand motions that apparently were meant to beckon Auggy, it's entirely possible they weren't being executed correctly because the little critters didn't catch all the nuances that we take for granted. I for one think that if they are really visiting, ET's aren't THAT advanced biologically/mentally and can certainly miss the boat when trying to interface with our bizaare sociology.

[XJarhead]

I can certainly understand difficulties in communication. But I also think that "they" would recognize the same problem. And its got to be obvious to them where our major population centers are, etc. If they really wanted to communicate, and they recognize that communication between different species could be difficult, it seems that they'd make a more concerted effort to do so.

I also to understand the apparent dichotomy between "they want to be secret" and "they use running lights on their ships".

Another problem I have is the whole abduction subculture, which strongly suggests that people have been "studied" for a rather long time. Yet, these aliens still try to flag us down on a highway? It's this weird mix of "the aliens really dominate us through secret pacts with the government" and "they don't understand us enough to communicate" that I find tough to resolve.

[Quix]

They seem to communicate plenty well in THEIR WAYS; according to THEIR priorities; according to THEIR TIMING; according to THEIR SEQUENCING; according to perhaps various 'species' agenda; etc. etc.

They say/telepathically communicate quite effectively when they wish to. They seem to have no trouble reading thoughts from many miles away.

This may not be a big difference from the Scriptural

GOD KNOWS OUR THOUGHTS AFAR OFF.

I really don't see what the problem is about their communication skills.

We, as public, don't like what we've been able to find out about their communications. Evidently government types have volumes of communications from them. The volume on religion alone is supposed to be quite thick.

There are different stories from different sources about the same and different ET races with evidently different agenda.

Given the problems parents have communicating with teenagers, it appears that Et/human communications is way ahead of those problems but strictly limited to what ET's wish and will tolerate.

[Quix]

I posted a bunch of paragraphs, sections about reasons for secrecy from the Disclosure site's EXECUTIVE SUMMARY section. I think it's on the Colo thread.

Let me get that URL

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1008465/posts

[Quix]

Am still prayerfully pondering your exhortations.

However, this thought also came . . .

I was reminded of decades ago when I was first informed in extensive detail of Hitler's hideousness . . .

I made a commitment to myself and to God that if I ever had occasion to observe, know of someone who seemed clearly, emphatically on a path similar to or worse than Hitler's, that I'd blow a very loud and shrill whistle as best I could.

What would you have done back early in Hitler's life, career if you had been there and certain that he would end up as evil as he did? Would you have kept quiet?

Would you have whitewashed the problem?

Would you have spoken/written in gentle, polite terms?

Would you have decided it was someone else's job?

Would you have decided it was unChristian to be so pointed, loud, shrill?

Would you have held out for perhaps a 0.00000000% to 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance he could have been turned toward good? Keep in mind, I mentioned that you were certain there was virtually no chance he would turn from the evil path. But would you have paid attention to your solid knowledge or pretended it was not quite true?

Would you have merely engated in polite letters-to-editors debates?

What, really, would you have done?

I'm convinced that Shrillery is AT LEAST AS BAD AS HITLER. I'm convinced that Billdo is aiding and abetting her for all he's worth. There are a variety of psychodynamic, spiritual and philosophical reasons. But the short of it is that they have both exercised their free wills in the directions of evil for so long, that if their consciences are not seared as Scripture says--they are very close to it. And hers seems seared to the point of ashes and those blown to the four winds.

I'm not trying to be cheeky nor rigidly argumentative. I take your exhortations seriously as a brother in Christ. And I also prefer to speak of positive things in terms of other people. It grieves me to see evil in anyone and it grieves me to feel compelled to speak of it.

I ask these questions seeking honest answers but also to provoke some thought and discussion in the hopes that such discussion will help me better sort out my own feelings, discernments etc. on it all.

[Quix]

SOME 'FUN' ASSERTIONS by a controversial figure in the field . . .

from:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/insider.html

---

OFFICIAL WITHIN UFO SECRECY MANAGEMENT GROUP
REVEALS INSIDER SECRETS
By Richard J. Boylan, Ph.D., 1997


Dr. Michael Wolf has since 1979 served as consultant to the President and the National Security Council on extraterrestrial matters, and a member of the Majestic Twelve (MJ-12), UFO-secrecy management agency's, Special Studies Group, and has been leader of its lead agency, the Alphacom Team. Previously he has served as an Air Force Colonel, pilot, flight surgeon and counter-intelligence officer for the CIA and NSA. He has an M.D. in Neurology, a Ph.D. in Theoretical Physics and a D.Sc. in Computer Science. He is not a lightweight. Now dying of untreatable cancer, Dr. Wolf has decided to reveal what he has learned about the visiting extraterrestrial cultures to the world, "because we have a right to know." His book, "The Catchers of Heaven" (1996) makes many well-informed revelations. [ISBN#: 0-8059-3907-5; available from Mandala Books, (888)497-2085.]
Dr. Wolf states that the most important mission objective of his Alphacom Team is resumption of negotiations with the visiting extraterrestrials. In the 1950s, the U.S. administration entered into treaty terms with the so-called Grey extraterrestrials from the fourth planet of the star system Zeta Reticuli, but these treaties were never ratified as Constitutionally required. The Greys shared certain of their technological advances with military/intelligence scientists, apparently often while prisoner "guests" within secure underground military installations in Nevada (Area 51) and New Mexico (Dulce Labs). The extraterrestrials have given the U.S. government some of their antigravity craft and a huge amount of fuel (Element 115). On May 1, 1975 during one such technology exchange in Nevada, a demonstration of a small ET antimatter reactor, the lead Grey asked the Colonel in charge of the Delta Forces guarding the ETs to remove all their rifles and bullets from the room, (so that they would not accidentally discharge during the energy emissions.) The guards refused, and in the ensuing commotion a guard opened fire on the Greys. One alien, two scientists and 41 military personnel were killed. One guard was left alive to attest that the ETs apparently used directed mental energy in self-defense to kill the other attacking Delta Forces. Dr. Wolf states that "this incident ended certain exchanges with (the Greys)."

Military/intelligence scientists learned cloning techniques from the extraterrestrials. After perfecting cloning techniques on animals, Dr. Wolf and his associates cloned an artificial-intelligence human being, "J-Type Omega", as part of Project SENTINEL, an effort to create a superbright, superpowerful soldier who would follow orders without fear or question. The J-Type clone was terminated, because he would not follow an order to kill an innocent dog, because Dr. Wolf had surreptitiously programmed ethics into his artificial intelligence.

Wolf notes that the extraterrestrials are not comfortable with the world money and power brokers' need for continuing world industrialization, which they see as headed towards planet-killing. Another of the Alphacom Team's missions is to determine "whether we can use the ETs' technology to restore this planet to its former pristine state of natural balance." The ETs are also concerned about the massive proliferation of nuclear devices into many countries.

Wolf states that other missions of the MJ12SSG's Alphacom Team are: to determine the number and types of ET visitors, the extent of visitation and the reasons, to learn about human interactions with extraterrestrials in the past and currently, the cultures of the various off world visitors, and how we can negotiate with them.

According to Dr. Wolf, several confederations of extraterrestrial civilizations are visiting us in loosely-coordinated fashion. These are: the Alliance (of human-looking ETs from the Altair Aquila system), the Corporate (of Greys from the Zeta Reticuli system), the Federation of Worlds (of unspecified races from many star systems), and the United Races of Orion (cultures from those star systems). Further, the Alliance is in affiliation with the Corporate and with the Federation of Worlds. The United Races of Orion are in affiliation with the Corporate, and, through them, with the Alliance and the Federation of Worlds.

Dr. Wolf told of learning during a high-level briefing in the UK that the Vatican had been applying pressure concerning the possible announcement by President Clinton of UFO visitation. Of specific Vatican concern was "whether he will make reference to the extraterrestrial biological entities' data revealing in detail how religion was created and why." Wolf comments, "Rich organized religions feel threatened by such an announcement."

Perhaps Wolf's most startling revelation is that within the UFO Cover-Up there is a dark, covert renegade organization known as the "Cabal". He describes it as "well-orchestrated conspiratorial bevy of plotters... top-heavy with the military, and headed by (a Navy Under-Secretary)." The paranoiac Cabal works against, and deliberately undermines, the goals of peaceful negotiations with the extraterrestrial visitors. The Cabal uses Star Wars weapons to shoot down extraterrestrial spacecraft and overcome the ETS by military might.

Dr. Wolf concludes by stating, "In all of my preparation as a scientist, nothing ever prepared me for our visitors. We must understand the complexity of the various forces at work on this planet, and yes, on others. Let us not forget multi-dimensionality and space-time distortions, and the spirituality we must regain. I feel I must also mention that spirituality is gaining strength on this planet, this Sol Three. But also is the evil. We have the power to sanction whatever is... for a better good for mankind."

[auggy]

I printed them all out. Very interesting, so far. Thank You.

[Quix]

You are most welcome.

AS to what they are worth and all mean . . . God only knows, IMHO . . . I don't think even the government has a full handle on it all.

[Frank_Discussion]

"I can certainly understand difficulties in communication. But I also think that "they" would recognize the same problem."

Why? They may have technological superiority, but sociologically they may have serious difficulties in relating to us. Communication can be difficult with your own spouse and kids, so why should it be surprising that inter-species relations might be confusing for both sides?

That said, I also believe that on a very basic level that all creatures look for a means of advantage, and if they are better at managing the confusion than we are, then that serves their needs.

"I also to understand the apparent dichotomy between "they want to be secret" and "they use running lights on their ships"."

Depends on whether you consider "secret" to be subtly different from "discreet". If an ET wants to have a particular relationship with a particular person or persons, the discreet approach is what they might desire. If others in the vicinity see them, who would believe them?

Of course, there have been a number of mass sightings in major metro areas, too. Secrecy is a selective thing, I suppose.

"It's this weird mix of "the aliens really dominate us through secret pacts with the government" and "they don't understand us enough to communicate" that I find tough to resolve."

Not everyone tries with their last ounce of breath to link the two ideas. I don't. That's one of the smears on anyone or any group that explores the phenomenon, that the two are linked, and obviously seem to be at odds. Makes ufology look quite illogical, as you rightly recognize.

[XJarhead]

Why? They may have technological superiority, but sociologically they may have serious difficulties in relating to us. Communication can be difficult with your own spouse and kids, so why should it be surprising that inter-species relations might be confusing for both sides?

You oughta get together with Quix and get your stories straight. According to him, they have no problem communicating with the military/industrial complex, Satanists, New World Order, etc. As to your point, I agreed that communications would be difficult. But a rational society would understand that and make far more overt attempts at communication than they've tried so far. They've got to be able to detect the wild activity in the EM spectrun, the radio waves, etc. Even the simple act of interfering with those signals would communicate more than waving guys down on the side of the road, and a rational being would know that from the EM signals.

Depends on whether you consider "secret" to be subtly different from "discreet". If an ET wants to have a particular relationship with a particular person or persons, the discreet approach is what they might desire. If others in the vicinity see them, who would believe them?

Obviously, you, Quix, the Trilateral Commission, etc. Quix screams that the evidence is obvious. Okay, fine. Then they haven't been discreet, right? Or even leaving Quix out of it, because I don't know if you share his views on that, the fact is that there is lots of speculation, alleged sightings, abductions, photographs, etc. And if those really are of aliens, then they haven't been discreet.

Of course, there have been a number of mass sightings in major metro areas, too. Secrecy is a selective thing, I suppose.

That's the part that makes no sense to me.

Not everyone tries with their last ounce of breath to link the two ideas. I don't. That's one of the smears on anyone or any group that explores the phenomenon, that the two are linked, and obviously seem to be at odds. Makes ufology look quite illogical, as you rightly recognize.

. That makes sense to me. Don't get me wrong -- I don't discount the possibility that aliens have visited this plaent. That would give me a form of omniscience that would be arrogant in the extreme. What I find, well, amusing, are those UFO's folks who cross the line into claiming to understand their motives, assign to them secret agendas, add government conspiracies, etc. That's the stuff that I don't think can be supported logically.

I think the biggest problem with the UFO community is that they tend to swallow too many reports hook, line and sinker. Then, they try to overwhelm you with hundreds of reports, articles, and summaries. "See, there's all this evdience". Then you start digging, and you find a fair bit of it is just not very good. Bad speculation based on ambiguous evidence. That leads me to doubt the whole mess. Another problem for me is that I find personal testimonials and eyewitness accounts of little or no value. You've got the whole issue of people wanting their 15 minutes of fame, or of wanting to fool people, or of people who are reporting honestly of what they've seen but with an incomplete perspective. I've just seen that far too many times in my line of work to buy it.