Students can't bring gun to firearms class

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Tuesday, October 21, 2003

[JohnHuang2]

A 12-year-old student who brought his unloaded gun to a firearms-safety course at his public school was met with a surprise when administrators and instructors intercepted him in enforcement of the district's new "zero-tolerance policy."

Nick Ziegeweid had been told to bring his shotgun when he signed up for the class earlier this fall at Winona Middle School in Winona, Minn., the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported. But when he arrived on the first day of the Saturday morning course, Oct. 11, the officials reminded him the year-old policy bars students from carrying guns on school grounds, with no exceptions.

The issue has sparked a heated debate in the Mississippi River town, located in one of many rural communities where the firearms course has been conducted through sponsorship of the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources.

Last month, the Winona school board rejected a proposal to make an exception for the course.

"It's like teaching a math class without a calculator," Scott Sabotta, the course instructor, told the Minneapolis paper. "The whole point of the class is to save injury or life. In some ways, our hands have been tied with the decision that they made."

Defending the policy, Steve Kranz, chairman of the school board, said, according to the Star Tribune, "We can't pretend that guns don't exist. The question is: Do schools have a role in educating people about firearms?"

The setting for the weekend class is comfortable to the students, some board members say, but supporters of the policy insist school shootings, such as the 1999 Columbine High School attack, provide reason to ban all firearms from school grounds.

"There needs to be some safety zones," Sue Brown, a school board member, told the paper. "And I think a school district and a school building should be held in higher regard than it is. It's a difficult climate; it's a different day and age. Whatever you can do to restrict, restrict."

Just days before the first class, Superintendent Eric Bartleson notified board members of the conflict with the new policy. He said the course could go on using unloaded firearms brought by the instructors, but the students could not bring their own guns.

However, backers of the course argue "hands-on" training is the best way to teach gun safety and ensure the firearms owned by the students are safe, the Star Tribune reported.

"Every gun is a little different, and they should be familiar with it," said Sabotta. "The last thing I want to see is them going out without having a clue on what they are handling."

Board member Peterson argued, according to the Minneapolis daily, "There is not a kid in this country that doesn't know how to shoot a gun."

"They've seen it on TV and in movies thousands and thousands of times," he said. "We're not teaching shooting. We're teaching safe handling of firearms."

Some board members have suggested moving the course off school grounds, but Peterson says that would require a fee the cash-strapped district cannot afford.

"What is the district's responsibility?" he asked, the Star Tribune reported. "To provide meaningful education to the community. And this, I think, is a very useful and valuable part of providing education in the community."

[Joe Brower]

[TazforPrez]

"Whatever you can do to restrict, restrict." This should be the Democratic Party motto. Qwinnn

I thought it already was their motto. "We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans ..." [President Bill Clinton, 'USA Today' March 11, 1993: Page 2A]

[scan58]

"We're not teaching shooting. We're teaching safe handling of firearms."

What the heck are they doing handling them if they don't intend to use them?

[RoughDobermann]

That's like trying to teach driving skills to students without a car!

Or like teaching sex education without the sex...

[Quick1]

It's like teaching a math class without a calculator," Going slightly off the topic here, but teaching math without a calculator is how it should be done. The only time I needed a calculator in my years and years of math classes (including college courses) is when an instructor designed an exam to make it that you needed a calculator to find out what 2.245732 * 423.57 was. (Of course, you can find the result of that by hand, but not in the time it takes for a one hour exam...)

[macrahanish #1]

Hard to say. Overall, I think they have made people less,
not more, capable.

[Core_Conservative]

teach driving skills to students without a car

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm - Some districts already do that too - lol.

[sarasota]

I was afraid you'd say that. Does this mean that the dumbing-down continues?

[Petronski]

"It's like teaching a math class without a calculator..."

No it's not. It's not like that at all. Millions and millions of people learned to do math in their heads before the calculator was invented.

This is more like trying to teach auto shop without tools or cars.

[Petronski]

I don't mean to be snooty, but your post made me laugh.

VIOLA

Uh, that's a stringed musical instrument. You mean Voila, French for 'There it is.'

Saying Viola is kinda like saying "Cello!"

[Zuben Elgenubi]

I grew up in rural New York state, born 1950. When I was in Junior High and High School, student hunters were allowed to bring their shotguns to school so they could hunt after school was let out. Opening season would find a dozen or so shotguns (unloaded) lined up in the front of homeroom.

We repected the system and feared the consequences of our fathers if we violated common sense rules. The Fear of Dad was enough to keep the boys in line.

[meyer]

What the heck are they doing handling them if they don't intend to use them?

They have every right to use them. The constitution guarantees that. The idea of the course it to ensure that they know the dangers of the gun and how to prevent accidental shootings.

[Liberal Classic]

It is not simply idiotic or accidental or a silly example of so-called 'zero tolerance.' This is a deliberate policy to indoctrinate children with an irrational fear of firearms. Have you ever noticed when ever a gun or knife is involved the reaction is so out of proportion with the happenstance that it seems absurd? It is not that people get carried away with the rules or over-react. The over-reaction is the method of zero tolerance and the purpose is to engender fear. I'll take off my tinfoil hat now.

[Constantine XIII]

Lol, comparing guns and calculators is like comparing apples and Fords. :p

[Teacher317]

"There needs to be some safety zones," Sue Brown, a school board member, told the paper. "And I think a school district and a school building should be held in higher regard than it is. It's a difficult climate; it's a different day and age. Whatever you can do to restrict, restrict."

Spoken like a true subject.

Actually, does anyone else picture a woman who was a slow and uncoordinated child, who cried during games of tag because she couldn't get to "home base"?

I wonder where the safety zones are in war, in business, in relationships, and in conflicts with government officials.

[Teacher317]

Cello there!

[Mo1]

Liberal idiots. How can you teach a firearms instruction course without a gun? That's like trying to teach driving skills to students without a car!

You took the words out of my mouth

I guess Common Sense is not so common

[Ghengis]

One of the best teachers I had was a Jr. High history teacher. Once he brought his entire antique and replica firearms collection to class to illustrate the history of the use of firearms in the world and the USA. He carefully supervised as each student examined and handled all sorts of firearms that were used back to the matchlock days. I also had a High School history teacher who was a reenactor of medieval knights. He brought his armor, lance, sword, spear and crossbow to class for the kids to check out.

Both of these guys would be fired today by ignorant administrators.

[paul51]

"There is not a kid in this country that doesn't know how to shoot a gun." "They've seen it on TV and in movies thousands and thousands of times

Why are wasting so much money on schools. Kids should also be able to learn how to read and write and do math by watching on TV. Wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy every kid a tv?

[ZULU]

Most school boards operate hand in glove with the gangsters in the NEA. They are, for the most part, ignorant, witless, politically correct, craven, politican wannabes.

Non-thinking like this is typical of the NEA and School Boards nationwide - like the case of kids who were expelled for playing cops and robbers in the schoolyard and using their hands like guns.