10/18/03 -- Jeb's Emails to FR poster, summer, today, re: Terri. (And, a Message to Michael Shiavo)

10/18/03 | summer's emails with Gov Bush

[summer]

Note to FR: I am posting here an email conversation I had today with Gov Bush about Terri, and yes, he knows I am posting it here on FR.

In my reply #1, located below this post of Gov Bush’s email, I have posted a message from me to Terri’s husband. And, no, I did not discuss with anyone my idea here to write to Terri’s husband. No one suggested it to me. Nor did I discuss it with anyone at all.

In my next reply, reply #2 below, I hope to post a message to my friends here on FR. And, while I would like to respond to each reply that may be posted on this thread, I can not. Due to a pressing personal matter, I will not be able to respond tonight.

However, my thoughts and prayers and hopes remain with each person involved in this matter.

God bless.

summer

-------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: [summer]
To: Jeb Bush
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: …question for you…

Gov Bush,

Thank you, and I have no doubt you would move Heaven and Earth for her if you could.

Sincerely, [summer]

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeb Bush
To: [summer]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:42 PM
Subject: …question for you…

I cannot offer much hope. I am sickened by this situtation and pray for her family. We have looked at every angle, every legal possibility and will continue to do so. It is clear that we need to make living wills the norm for families in our state. Too few people use them.

Jeb

-----Original Message-----
From: [summer]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:38 PM
To: Jeb Bush
Subject: Re: …question for you…

Thank you for your response, Gov Bush. Before I post this, can you provide any measure of hope for a legal way to preserve this woman's life? To think that all her parents want to do is care for her and not see her starve to death, is, I think, not asking for a lot in this world. My own parents would feel the same way about me, I am sure[…]

[summer]

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeb Bush
To: [summer]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:07 PM
Subject: …question for you…

this was tried in the courts I believe and was rejected.

jeb

-----Original Message-----

From: [summer]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:03 PM
To: Jeb Bush
Subject: …question for you…

Is there a way you can utilize Family Law as it pertains to abandonment of a spouse -- on the grounds of lack of sexual contact -- so that the path can be cleared for him to be legally removed by the state or her family as a husband?

-----Original Message-----

From: Jeb Bush
Sent: Oct 18, 2003 1:47 PM
To: [summer]
Subject: …question for you…

Unfortunately, I cannot issue an executive order when there is a court order upheld at every level in the judiciary. Mr. Shiavo is the legal guardian and I can't override that fact. I wish I could but I have no legal authority to do so.

Jeb

-----Original Message-----
From: [summer]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 11:02 AM
To: Jeb Bush
Subject: …question for you…

Can you use your authority to issue an Executive Order, to place her in a different hospice that has no connection to her husband, as a temporary stop measure to [get] this woman back on feeding -- so that you have the time necessary to review whatever other options may exist for you? This current situation with her removed from the tubes will result in an irrevocable situation.

[summer]

they could show the judiciary and the executive office how concerned they are.

There is no doubt that everyone in FL already knows this is the most emotional case to rock this state in awhile. Your plan sounds fine except - you omit any mention of the legal guardian recognized by every court in this matter, her husband.

He holds the key card in this deck, by virtue of his legal position. You may not like his legal position, and I may not like it, but, you are asking everyone to simply ignore it. That's a fantasy. You can't ignore him.

He has to either walk away or be legally removed. Maybe he will walk, if he sees this situation differently than he has for years. It is possible he could be The Miracle.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Having the executive branch invalidate the judical branch seems a very dangerous precedent.

For example, what if Clinton had intervened in the case of Bush vs. Florida in the 2000 election, by determining that the USSC was wrong!?

[summer]

The Court has simply refused to hear any and all more appeals

This is something that bugs me. I would be more than happy to see the judges who came up with the Oct 2003 deadline for Terri, as well as the gag order on this matter, ousted.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..it is unreasonable to place all of the blame in Bush's lap at this juncture, while the legislature is eerily silent....

Yes, it is. But we are now past the point where intervention from the legislature or the sidelines will be of assistance. Terri is dying of legally-mandated starvation, as we type, and I presume that will progress exponentially. What is needed now is a principled champion to take charge and prevent this from happening-PDQ- using whatever fair and legal means are available to cut through the logjam. If that means a bedside visit by JB, then go for it, Mr Governor.

[Theodore R.]

a family matter

A family matter? A family matter? A family matter? Where did you decide that this is a "family matter"? That must have come from O'Reilly or ABC Radio?

Since when is murder a "family matter"?

[summer]

What is needed now is a principled champion to take charge

Yes, that is exactly who I hope I reached in my letter posted in my reply #1.

[summer]

Theodore, Cooler heads are needed now.

[Qwinn]

"If that means a bedside visit by JB, then go for it, Mr Governor."

I agree. But realize that Schiavo has the legal right to forbid even this. That's how much power he has as Terri's guardian.

Qwinn

[summer]

If that means a bedside visit by JB, then go for it, Mr Governor.

Mr. Governor made a bedsit visit online, here on FR, today. He always has time for you, Byron, and for everyone else here. He has also visited with Terri's family just this week.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

I believe the standard for legal guardianship should be changed. In fact, I would suggest that a living will or other incontrovertable evidence be necessary to prove that someone in Terri's position should wish to die.

In Terri's case, this doesn't work, because Michael is the legal guardian, no matter what his character.

Sadly, if Terri had chosen a Godly spouse, this situation would not have happened. I do not believe that God wants Terri to die, and I believe He grieves for her. Michael has known all along that he would win this case, no matter how much the Schindler's have prayed. Judge Greer is bound by the laws in Florida, not the Ten Commandments.

[summer]

Schiavo has the legal right

That is a key point not everyone here grasps.

[Qwinn]

"I would be more than happy to see the judges who came up with the Oct 2003 deadline for Terri, as well as the gag order on this matter, ousted."

Oh, I'm with you there 100%.

Qwinn

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..there is a legal limit to how many appeals can be filed, and they have all been filed and heard...

Qwinn.

I-am-not-suggesting-legal-options. Okay?

The time for that is past. The woman is starving to death. Get in the car, Jeb, and get over to that hospital. Tomorrow would be ideal for the trip.

Sunday.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

You agree that it is unreasonable, but...

The executive, judiciary and legislature (by their silence) have spoken. There is no other recourse. Michael has LEGALLY won.

[summer]

I believe the standard for legal guardianship should be changed. In fact, I would suggest that a living will or other incontrovertable evidence be necessary to prove that someone in Terri's position should wish to die.

What you are saying here is very important, and worth discussing at great length, in my view. Terri is also worth discussing at great length, but, there are levels of learning, and one level is application. Applying the lessons is an important task.

Another thought I had is this: giving parents, rather than your spouse, greater power might be preferable in a living will. Because a spouse may well want to continue with his or her life, and that desire conflicts with the natural desire of the parents' of the other, ill spouse -- which is to preserve the life of their offspring.

[summer]

Re your post #92 - That is a worthwhile project for FR posters who care about this matter. Because those idiot judges need to find a new line of work.

[Qwinn]

"I-am-not-suggesting-legal-options. Okay? .... Get in the car, Jeb, and get over to that hospital."

Did you note the post where I pointed out that Schiavo can (and I'm guessing probably already has) forbidden Bush or anyone else from visiting Terri?

I just want to make sure you're advocating he pursue an illegal option. I'm not upset - at least you're not advocating a violent option - but I want to make sure you realize that it -would- be illegal, and if he used his position to get in he could even be arrested for it.

At this point the most he could legally do in that vein would be to stand outside with the vigil. Personally, I'd prefer him to keep looking for the miracle loophole. Besides, the way some people on this board are acting (-not- you, not many in this thread, but in others), I'd be afraid if I were Jeb to go to the vigil. I've heard people suggest he's worse than Greer and Schiavo (which is stark raving insane, IMHO). For his own safety from Terri's defenders, I would stay away if I were him.

Qwinn

[summer]

Michael has LEGALLY won.

Yes, that is correct. But, he has not won the hearts and minds of others. That is another kind of victory he has yet to consider. While he need not become Mr. Popular, there is most certainly a level of disgust everyone has with this case. Michael can still turn this around, all by walking away. And, turning over legal guardianship to her parents. WHy would he walk? He can say, quite honestly:

"I have no idea what Terri would say today about what to do in this situation. Since I am not God, but I am a parent, I am turning her over to the loving parents she has. God bless and good bye."

That is a much bigger win than the legal victory he has now. Much bigger.

[summer]

I would stay away if I were him.

And yet, you see where Gov Bush is today? He is here, on FR. The site of much venom. He is not afraid to speak. His heart in this matter is pure, and that is why he is here today. He knows how hard he is trying. He knows the obstacles. He knows more than many people on this forum know about this matter, of that I am sure.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...I agree. But realize that Schiavo has the legal right to forbid even this. That's how much power he has as Terri's guardian...

Wow. The law, versus justice, eh?

Well, what's the plan? Surely FR's got some alternative to sitting around until the 'Terri's Dead' thread goes up?