Second Hand Smoke Scam

Fox News ^ | October 17, 2003 | Steven Milloy

[CSM]

I could only laugh last April when I first heard about a study claiming that a smoking ban in Helena, Mont., cut the city

[metesky]

Never starve your meat animals. Children are great baked, broiled, fried or poached.

I had two for lunch, little 12 pounders... Mmmmmmm!

[r9etb]

You seem to be laboring under the delusion ...

And you seem to be laboring under the delusion that being smelly and a b**** is somehow better than just being smelly.

[r9etb]

Again,it's the government I'm afraid of,that's it.

Well, ma'am, if your fear of government really does extend to a willingness to sacrifice kids to evil parents rather than let the cops intervene, then you've got some real and serious problems.

Otherwise, you're just talking through your hat.

[Madame Dufarge]

The highlighted word was used to lead in to the fact that she calls the parents "irresponsible." She doesn't bother to take it beyond that -- what should one do about parents who knowingly harm their children?

So, if you're talking about me, you don't have the cojones to include me in the reply?

How pathetically typical.

[r9etb]

So, if you're talking about me, you don't have the cojones to include me in the reply?

You never answered when I asked you directly.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

With their cancer they could find where it started, so they knew it started in the lung. And from the type of cancer it was, they knew it was not a result of asbestos and somehow started as a result of tobacco. I did not talk to the oncologist treating them, so I don't know the medical jargon and details.

I am surprised that you, being a physician, would ask that and not know the basics of cancer - ability to know its source and cause.

[Graybeard58]

...I once worked in a place that had a break room for non smokers and a seperate one for smokers. I used the smoking room but would sometimes go into the non smoking one to talk to someone. The smoking room had yellow ceilings and walls, the non smoking rooms walls and ceiling were very white..... Reason: The non smoking room was painted white and the smoking room was painted yellow. My point is that almost any conclusion may be drawn by a "concluder" to conform to the results that said "concluder" wants.
...I don't say that second hand smoke is harmless and neither do I conclude that it's anywhere near as bad as others say it is.
... When my youngest daughter's daughter was born about 8 years ago in another state I agreed with my daughter that I would not smoke in my house when she came to visit. It seemed a reasonable compromise to me to simply go outside to smoke while she visited. When she got here the first thing she did was to come close to me and smell my shirt front before handing me the baby. I told her that I was willing to go along with her up to a point but if she wanted me to be a grampa to my grand daughter she had to quit being so stupid about smoking and that I would not allow her to give me any more sniff tests and I refuse to shower and change clothes each time I wanted to hold the baby. I was already totally in love with my sweet grand daughter at that point and was so relieved that she agreed with me and so far hasn't attempted a sniff test on me again.

[Hot Tabasco]

When I got life insurance, they asked me if I or anyone in my house smoked. Why?

For the same reason they asked me if I had firearms in my house. A bogus excuse to increase the cost of my insurance. I then decided I didn't need life insurance and instead chose to invest in a mutual fund that didn't ask me if I smoked or had firearms.......

FWIW, the top 4 insurance companies in this country don't even list firearms among the top 25 dangers in a household.......

[CyberCowboy777]

BTTT!

[metesky]

You're 100% wrong, sir. We've wandered far afield from the premise of the thread which is that the science behind the SHS bans is a scam, which it provably is.

Every encroachment once gained gives the aggressor the greenlight for more aggression. If you can't see the simple fact that the anti-tobacco crowd doesn't mean to stop there, you'll deserve it when your ox is gored.

The same people behind the tobacco settlement are the very people leading the charge against "Big Food". Do you think these greed mongers will be satisfied with that?

Big Lumber

Big Auto

Big Clothing

Big Pharmaceuticals

I myself find pushy, bossy people insufferable, yet I make no attempt to ban them, merely to avoid their presence.

This laissez-faire attitude of mine is something that anti-smoking folks won't extend to me, even though they'd never be caught dead in any of the sawdust-and-blood-on-the-floor gin mills that I guzzle and fight in.

Why can't the wusses among us stick to their damn fern bars and leave us toothless, bloodknuckled, scarred up old hard core to ourselves?

"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

[Madame Dufarge]

Hmmmmm. How very convenient. Does this extend only to smoking, or can we logicall extend it to Mears' defense of parents' right to starve and torture them?

Since I have no respect for you, I don't care what you say to me.

Your attack on Mears is unwarranted and completely without merit.

Your reply stands on its own, and I only hope that others will see it as your providing the rope with which you've hung yourself.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Ever seen the smokers dens at Atlanta Hartsfield airport? I know smokers who won't even go in there!

You should see when they pull the walls and stow bins off older aircraft that had smoking on them. The residue from the smoke RUNS down the backside of the panels. Think of what it does in a body.

[metesky]

Nobody knows the source or cause of cancer, which is why there is no death certificate stating SHS.

[DannyTN]

"are we to believe that by some mysterious filtering process, smoke is purified of carcinogens in the lungs of a smoker, such that the smoker exhales only safe smoke? "

Well they obviously believe it. Why else would they subject you and me to their second hand smoke. Surely they aren't so inconsiderate and selfish as to intentionally harm us.

And obviously we are at fault for not telling them how bad it stinks and how obnoxious it is. The few that do tell them, are obviously the exception, because most people like the smell of smoke especially when they are eating.

And if that doesn't convince you how safe and pleasant second hand smoke is, just consider how many of them smoke with the children in the car. And there kids aren't dropping dead of heart attacks. It must be safe.

[Madame Dufarge]

And you seem to be laboring under the delusion that being smelly and a b**** is somehow better than just being smelly.

You know, desperation forces people to make really ugly and unfortunate statements.

Maybe someday you'll look back on all this and be embarrassed, though I doubt it. This would require an epiphany.

[Legerdemain]

I would disagree with the article. I guess mainly from the fact I had a family member die at OHSU of cancer and the cause was second hand smoke. If so many people are saying that second hand smoke has no effect, then why don't they call (for example) the oncology department at OHSU and ask them, or call any oncology dept that specializes in lung cancer?

sorry to be crass but....Prove it!

[Legerdemain]

When I got life insurance, they asked me if I or anyone in my house smoked. Why? Becase they are using bogus science to increase your insurance rates......

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Let me reword that; not the source or cause but the type. Maybe that will help.

[CyberCowboy777]

One - My parents had 9 children, both smoked - not one child had asthma - all are exceptionally healthy.

Two - My heritage has a long line of smoking, relatively healthy 90 year olds.

SHS has no effect on my line - so how can it be fact that it is bad?

[boop]

I DO know the "basics" of cancer. Not all cancer of the lung is caused by smoking. People who live in large cities, and who have basements with radon also have higher rates of lung ca. Children get lung ca, even though they have been exposed to this earth for only a few years. Fact is we can only talk about increased RISKS for cancer. We havent found the CAUSE yet. If we knew that we could figure out why only 1 out of six smokers will die from a smoking related disease. I don't think you'll find anyone who will deny that cigarette smoking increases RISK in a smoker. But the RISK increase in a nonsmoker from ETS just isn't there. I can appreciate the reason behind non-smoking zealots trying to ban public smoking. They simply "don't like" smoking, and will lie, distort, demonize,and use the police power of government to eliminate that which they "don't like".