205 migrants die hard, lonely deaths (Barf Alert)

AZcentral ^ | Oct. 16, 2003 | Susan Carroll

[f7Oshawn]

It is a lonely place to die, out in the soft sandy washes. The desert floor, with its volcanic rock, can reach 160 degrees. Most people go down slowly.

Blood starts to seep into the lungs. Exposed skin burns and the sweat glands shut down. Little hemorrhages, tiny leaks, start in the heart.

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

If you lived in New York and illegally owned a handgun and shot a robber entering your house, would it bug you that you had illegally owned a handgun even though it saved your families life?

They did what they had to do to survive. We as a nation need to take our heads out of the PC sand and fix this problem. Those people in the desert didn't deserve to die. Their deaths were avoidable and we shouldn't have their deaths mean nothing. We need to secure our borders and put pressure on Mexico to relieve the pressure exerted on these people to risk their lives.

You seem determined to make me a supporter of illegal immigration. It's not going to happen. But you have shown your disdain for people who want to live in Freedom so much they are willing to die for the chance.

[johnb838]

Are you a liberal Republican?

[jpl]

Then stop acting like they got what was coming to them.

How about if you stop putting words in my mouth and implying that I'm saying something I'm really not?

[swarthyguy]

>>no more handouts of any kind for those who have not been USA citizens for a minimum of 20 years. We'll see if the illegals and new immigrants say that sounds like a good policy. They won't.



Well, of course, not. It's stupid. If you become a citizen, you take the lumps and the gravy. Why 20 years? Why not make it a lifetime? No naturalised citizens should get any.

Of course, you may wish to talk to the grandees of the Republican Party concerning their viewpoint on illegal immigration.

Again, when people like you use the wedge of illegal immigration to rail against legal immigration, your credibility diminishes.

Blurring the two issues does not help in coming to a resolution of the illegal crisis. It just loses you the support of people who have strong concerns about the levels of illegals in this country.

[johnb838]

wimp.

[johnb838]

IF America and her president won't do that, then where does the responsibility lie.

With the Mexican Government and the Fox administration perhaps? I'm getting pretty tired of the blame for every sparrow that falls from the sky being laid at the feet of the "eeveel Booosh".

[FITZ]

Even after welfare reform, an estimated 34 percent of households headed by legal Mexican immigrants and 25 percent headed by illegal Mexican immigrants used at least one major welfare program, in contrast to 15 percent of native households. Mexican immigrants who have lived in the United States for more than 20 years, almost all of whom are legal residents, still have double the welfare use rate of natives.

Okay --- it looks like the rate for legal immigrants is 34% and the illegals is 25% ---- maybe we should deport the legal immigrants and keep the illegals.

http://www.usbc.org/info/citusa/0701cisreport.htm

[RoughDobermann]

If you lived in New York and illegally owned a handgun and shot a robber entering your house, would it bug you that you had illegally owned a handgun even though it saved your families life?

No, not in the least. The difference is that I wouldn't have a choice. These illegals do. Do it legally or expect the consequences.

Their deaths were avoidable

Yes, that is correct. They could have entered legally, and they would still be alive. Rather simple, no?

You seem determined to make me a supporter of illegal immigration.

No, all I'm trying to accomplish is to point out that these people chose to enter our country illegal, when they could have done so legally. Is it hard to get in legally? Yes. Does it take a long time? Yes. Do you risk the chance of dying coming in legally? No. They chose to take the quick, illegal route and got bitten.

But you have shown your disdain for people who want to live in Freedom so much they are willing to die for the chance.

No, actually they are not. If they truly wanted freedom, they would have the cajones to stay in their own country and make it free.

[jpl]

You got yourself a deal, Bill.

Sure thing, Oxpinch. Keep making attributions that don't exist.

[FITZ]

Again, when people like you use the wedge of illegal immigration to rail against legal immigration, your credibility diminishes.

Maybe it's because of where I live ---- many many many immigrants --- legal, illegal, and semi-legal are here on welfare programs, you see families with 6 or 7 youngs kids and their pregnant mother in the grocery stores proudly pulling out their "Lone Star" food stamp card and only 33% of the population here bothers with private insurance --- the rest get their health care at no cost to themselves. I don't even distinguish much between legal and illegal anymore. The only immigrants I have any respect for are those who work for their own living ---- I'd take a self-reliant illegal who is accessing no government program (but also not using stolen social security numbers or commiting other felony document fraud) over a legal immigrant who does.

[swarthyguy]

Listen, it's up to us to secure the border.

If we don't want them here, it's up to us to secure the borders.

And don't be such a paranoid ninny, no-one mentioned Bush. But since u bring him up, what's he done to stop the flow of illegals. And don't tell me it's Clinton's fault.
Who's been prez for the last few years.

See, it's up to us. If we're falling down on the securing of the border, it's no one else's fault.

[RoughDobermann]

Steven A. Camarota, “Back Where We Started: An Examination of Trends in Immigrant Welfare Use Since Welfare Reform,” Center for Immigration Studies, March 2003.

[bk1000]

"What would happen to that immigrant, who, because of his country of origin and by circumstance, would actually be legal once setting foot on US soil? Would our government honor him with freedom or condemn him to tyranny?"

Well, typically, if from Cuba one can stay, unless he is Eleon Gonzales and Janet Reno is in charge. The only reason
people hire illegals is because unions and idiot laws such as on the books in CA have made it much too costly and impractical to hire 'Americans' and stay afloat, much less make a profit. Personally, I think Mexico should fix their own corrupt system rather than invade our country to escape from it. How would you be treated if you went to Mexico and demanded free health care, welfare, education, civil rights, etc? You'd get thrown in jail. The vastness of the desert is the only deterrant, and some bleeding hearts want to install water fountains.
Amazing.

[RoughDobermann]

So, would we still be dismissive of their deaths if they did this?

No, I wouldn't. I still say that the best way to resolve this issue is to make offer Mexico statehood. Will never happen of course...